How would you rank the Ivies?

College Search & Selection
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<p>The medical school has been around, like engineering, since the 19th century (though admittedly the med school has waxed and weened during different periods).</p>

<p>Considering I sit on the board that approves new concentrations and sat on the committee that wrote the most recent review on the Brown undergraduate education experience, I'm extremely well-versed in our mission and goals.</p>

<p>Public health was squandered for almost 4 years while they struggled to prove that they were not just a certificate program and that there existed a distinct intellectual academic field that required a concentration to examine. Commerce, Organization, and Entrepreneurship went through another process that was quite similar lasting three or four years due to concerns initially that it would simply be a business degree and they added considerable support for theory work and demonstrating it's integrity as more than job training. Even after all of that, the Faculty refused to vote and approve the concentration if it was called Commerce, Entrepreneurship, and Organization because of the symbol that naming a concentration "CEO" would stand for.</p>

<p>You'll never see a business or law school at Brown and not because of the money or effort it would require to build a program. We offer very few programs whose sole goal it is to award a master's certificate and it's quite difficult to get those approved as well. Almost every department offers a Ph.D. program as a terminal degree-- very few have a master's program that's separate.</p>

<p>Even Brown's engineering department does not allow co-ops or internship for credit-- we teach engineering sciences and provide research experiences and labs and extracurricular activities to offer hands-on experience-- while you do get an ABET certification, they're not teaching engineering from a purely practice perspective.</p>

<p>Don't just be another CC moron who tries to pretend like they know more about schools they don't attend than those who are there and intimately involved with many aspects of the university. You're better than that, Cayuga. I'm glad that I came to these more general boards-- there are a lot of know-it-alls and misconceptions on here.</p>

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I think a lot of people rank Brown low simply because they're not quite sure what to make of it. The other Ivies (except Dartmouth) all have superb graduate programs, and Dartmouth has its niche as a LAC-like university. Brown is neither a large research university nor a LAC; it's something in between and yet different altogether. Brown doesn't fare as well by many criteria (selectivity, endowment, rankings, etc.), which I think encourages such people to put Brown at the bottom.</p>

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<p>Brown is consistently ranked around 5-8 for selectivity in the nation, higher than some Ivies. The university-college model at Brown is something that hasn't really been successfully created just about anywhere else and it's a reason to come to Brown rather than shy away from it-- but it does take time to understand the benefits of a model that is different.</p>

<p>Of course, rankings and their meaning and why Brown doesn't do well in the USNWR is a totally different issue.</p>

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<p>Modest, I don't doubt that brown is a prestigious school. I live in texas and had known about Brown for years and contemplated applying, but the ultimate reason that I decided against it was the poor financial aid for the middle class in the 100K range.
The way thier engineering program is structured is especially what I want from college. That is exactly what I want from the engineering programs I applied to Yale (my top choice) and Harvard. Both are not good for "practical engineering", but for those of us that want to get PhD and be research engineers, it is the spot. Much like Brown's program.</p>

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<p>Oh I'm just saying that some of the reasoning given jives with reputation, but not reality.</p>

<p>For instance, my family is just a bit above that 100k mark before taxes and yet I get a fair chunk of financial aid. Better than anywhere else I applied. Not bad for a school that's supposed to have a poor policy for aid and considering my parents had significant savings in the bank for college, a lot in my name (though it's all gone). Of course, aid is always very specific to certain situations, but I think the "bad aid" thing is not as true as a lot say.</p>

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Brown doesn't fare as well by many criteria (selectivity, endowment, rankings, etc.)

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<p>I can think of three rankings off the top of my head that place Brown in the top-10 for selectivity, including both LAC's and universities. It is just as selective as what are traditionally seen as its peer schools: Columbia, Penn, and Dartmouth. As a trendy undergraduate college with a unique educational program, it often transcends the HYP boundary in places that Penn, Columbia and Dartmouth cannot. Sure, I wouldn't have gone there, and didn't apply, and know 8 people who DID get in and turned it down for Penn :), but that doesn't mean it isn't just as selective. Heck, all the Brown kids think it's even better.</p>

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<p>Actually Brown is VERY selective. Absolutely as selective as Columbia, Dartmouth, and Penn.</p>

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<p>With Brown's 20% increase in applications this year, it might just be about to get MORE selective...</p>

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<p>The basic law degree offered by the vast majority of U.S. law schools is the Juris Doctor (J.D.) degree, awarded for successful completion of a 3-year graduate-level program. At most schools the J.D. is considerate equivalent in rank to the Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) or Doctor of Medicine (M.D.) degree. Many people who struggled to complete a Ph.D. dissertation over the course of many years would dispute that a 3-year graduate legal education is an equivalent accomplishment, and perhaps it's not. But whatever it is, it's clearly not a "master's certificate."</p>

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<p>Wow, Columbia gets hit pretty hard here, hell some people have 'rankings' of only 7 schools and dear alma usually gets left out. So even though I am heading into hostile territory, here are my few cents.</p>

<p>Columbia was the only Ivy I considered applying to because it was the right intellectual and environmental fit. My feeling is that of the schools named, Columbia offers the best undergraduate Education, with a big E. I say this not just because of the Core, though this plays a part, I think students at Columbia (not all, so don't go off with your outlier anecdotes) grow up more than students elsewhere. It is an education about being around different people and learning how to negotiate that experience and use those lessons for the future. No wonder when it comes to every measure of 'diversity,' Columbia trumps the other Ivies (Highest percentage of students of color, of each URM group with the exception of Native Americans and the great work that Dartmouth does - kudos there Dmouth), highest percentage of pell-eligible students, etc. When you add that on top of living in the city, taking the Core and the incredible intellectual firmament it offers and being able to take courses with top notch faculty that all the institutions have - I think it is the most attractive opportunity.</p>

<p>And I say that now as a recent alum with more confidence. Of course I was jealous of some of my Yale friends the times I visited them - that place I would say offers a pretty unparalleled undergraduate experience (sans the same Educational benefit), it is like a carnival there. People I knew at Brown were always so happy drawing and all, while every day at Columbia it was impossible not to find yourself in the midst of a heated debate on Israel and Palestine. But I remember it dawning upon me when some of my friends were applying for jobs and visiting New York, how sheltered they had been for four years. Columbia is pretty hard knocks by comparison. It can be frustrating and difficult, it is a place where stakeholders are many and everyone has an opinion. But those growing pains are to your benefit, I've come to see more clearly as alums had told me all along originally. The way a Columbian sees the world is truly special, it is different and it has something to do with the mixture of education, environment and peers that self-select to come to Columbia.</p>

<p>And like every good Columbian, yeah I always hesitate before I make generalizations (hell before I say anything that could be misunderstood), I am pretty comfortable saying that I think students who go to the other Ivies are missing out on something that is part of an everyday at Columbia - constant discussion, awareness not of issues in abstraction, but in reality, and what it feels like to have discordance within an actual melting pot. </p>

<p>I wanted to put in a plug for dear alma here, she is a fine place. Not for everyone, and certainly if your idea is a traditional collegiate experience replete with 24x7 parties and relatively no consequences for your actions, I am pretty sure Columbia might be too rough of a reality check for you. But as everyone contemplates precisely why they rank schools the way they do, I hope that you all dig deeper than just reputation. Perhaps consider what the experience will give you well after you have left, something personal and reflective that is worth remembering.</p>

<p>My Ranking:</p>

<p>Columbia</p>

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<p>Columbia reminds me of that country where gang bangers work in the jungle smuggling cocaine. </p>

<p>If I think harder, it reminds me of that white lady in the greek outfit holding that torch.</p>

<p>Finally, after a long while, I think about coffee beans.</p>

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<p>That would be ColOmbia.</p>

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<p>admissionsgeek:</p>

<p>As a Brown student, I can say very clearly that this statement:

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, I am pretty comfortable saying that I think students who go to the other Ivies are missing out on something that is part of an everyday at Columbia - constant discussion, awareness not of issues in abstraction, but in reality, and what it feels like to have discordance within an actual melting pot.

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Is not something you should feel so comfortable saying.</p>

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Don't just be another CC moron who tries to pretend like they know more about schools they don't attend than those who are there and intimately involved with many aspects of the university.

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<p>I'm not certain if I was being a moron, just pointing out that, in fact, Brown does offer some pre-professional programs.</p>

<p>Now I may be a bit cavalier in my opinions of Brown's grading scheme, but I don't think that constitutes being a moron.</p>

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<p>I think the use of the word "cavalier" is spot on, and understanding the full connotation of this term, if you'd prefer me call you cavalier as opposed to being moronic about the issue, so be it.</p>

<p>In fact, cavalier more completely captures the precise point I was making.</p>

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<p>You must be referring to his support of King Charles I.</p>

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<p>I wasn't sure what you were talking about, then I got a hunch.</p>

<p>M-W.com has served you well, young squire.</p>

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<p>I prefer lady in waiting.</p>

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<p>My deepest apologies, fair lady. Being male I reflect my own persona onto all those I speak to on the faceless internet.</p>

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<ol>
<li> Yale</li>
<li> Columbia</li>
<li> Cornell</li>
<li> Harvard</li>
<li> Dartmouth</li>
<li> Princeton</li>
<li> Brown</li>
<li> UPenn</li>
</ol>

<p>Based on a very scientific calculation of my exact emotions. Margin of error is 8 places, due to hormones and surges of hunger.</p>