<br>
<br>
<p>Help is available but there is some opportunity cost if you don’t know it cold going in.</p>
<p>^I would say, be high schooler in HS, enjoy do not worry ahead of time. There is huge opportunity cost if a High Schooler in constant worry about college and what might or might not happen. I am not saying do not work hard in HS. Nope, do your best and spend time doing stuff outside of academics too. Engineering major is not walk in a park, yes, it will be hard in college, enjoy you HS years while they last.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What the heck is “nesty”? My point is that they may be easy for you, that doesn’t mean they are easy for everyone else.</p>
<p>I hesitate to enter a discussion with you, because I don’t think there is a person on here who draws more sweeping incorrect generalizations than you do. But to clarify, I will make my point one last time.</p>
<p>Yes, you can review the basic concepts of Algebra and trigonometry. Maybe you didn’t even forget anything. But for me, even though I took Calc in high school and was glad I did, far more important for college level Calc, was a facility with Algebra and trig. Not just a general knowledge after a cursory review. I appreciated the ability to use them as tools with some ease. You do not want to be reviewing trigonometric identities, or partial fraction expansion, when the teacher is using them all day long to solve integrals. You do not want to go back and teach yourself infinite series when you are just expected to know it like the back of your hand.</p>
<p>Sometimes it can’t be helped, and it’s not an insurmountable obstacle. But just because these things are trivial to you, doesn’t mean they are to everyone else.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Cornell engineering requires students to have taken Calculus (although I think they allow them to take it over the summer before enrolling if they did not have the opportunity in high school). But this is a moot point. A student who aspires to Drexel or Pitt is unlikely to apply to Cornell.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Some kids live and breathe math. The parents’ job is to feed the need.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>For some, math is enjoyment.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Nasty + testy?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Ideally you wouldn’t use the tutoring center or office hours because you know the
material down cold. The process in using resources means that you’ve figured out
that you have a problem that you can’t deal with on your own. This typically takes
a bit of time, maybe a week or two, and you have to overcome your ego which may
take a little more time. College courses move so quickly that this kind of delay can
knock your grade down a notch and leave you in catchup mode for the rest of the
semester.</p>
<p>My son tells me that the biggest problems in tutoring calculus, physics and other
math/science subjects is proficiency in algebra. It may be middle-school material
but it seems that students are coming out of high-school and with good enough
grades to get into engineering programs without adequate preparation or current
facility.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My daughter TAs a college finance course and says the same thing. A lot of students have a very shaky foundation in algebra, which causes them to struggle with anything that involves math.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>LOL. Guilty as charged I guess.</p>
<p>I thought it might be some esoteric term from advanced set theory.</p>
<p>Oops. I’m doing it again. Sorry.</p>
<p>OP, the student is taking calculus now, correct?–just not AP calculus? So he should have some calculus background when he gets to college, which is a good thing.</p>
<p>Calculus is not required for entrance to engineering/science programs but most such students have had some (what they have, and retain, varies widely however). Many wisely repeat calculus I. So the challenge comes not in admission but in the first semester, for the student who is NOT repeating calculus but taking it for the first time, in classes where many are merely reviewing and grades are typically on a curve. I was in this situation as an undergraduate at Cornell, and it’s pretty terrifying. For any student whose school has prepared him inadequately, I’d strongly recommend that he avail himself of all the extra help sessions and so on that colleges typically offer in such basic courses. Many first-semester freshmen don’t know about that extra help, or assume they won’t need it because they have always done well in school–but it is a lifesaver.</p>
<p>If this were my S, I’d see if he could arrange to take a summer class at a local CC, which shouldn’t be prohibitively expensive.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the replies!</p>
<p>Yes, the student is taking Calc (honors) this year as 11th grader. </p>
<p>He planned on AP Calc next year, but did not want to “skip” the course in college; just was doing it as the progression of the HS curriculm. Now that school has announced the course will not be offered next year, he was at a loss what to do.</p>
<p>The reason he would take Statistics is that the school now has a 4 year math requirement and this is the ONLY math course offered that he did not take. </p>
<p>He is in a crazy red-tape situation because his class is the first to be required to take 4 years of math. The board wrote the new rules and did not account for any Algebra beginning in middle school. This, combined with the budget cuts for APs and the state laws of not needing to offer “AP or advanced” courses beyond a set cirriculm, has left him with no good options.</p>
<p>Our CC is quite expensive compared to most – $105/credit plus lots of fees which add up to $100 – the fees are a “flat” student fee, not per course fee and really seem high if taking only 1 class. So over $400 for 1 course. The summer time slots also aren’t always friendly for working teens.</p>
<p>I’ll show him all the responses here.</p>
<p>
For a kid like this, this will probably not be a problem. Algebra probably is relatively easy for him.</p>
<p>“My son tells me that the biggest problems in tutoring calculus, physics and other
math/science subjects is proficiency in algebra.”</p>
<p>-Exactly true. Straight out of my D’s mouth who is Supplemental Instructor for Gen. Chem. Yes, algebra defficiency causes kids to memorize where morization is not appropriate. As far as kids being different. Not so in regard to engineering programs. Kids who do not feel strongly about their math usually do not go to engineering. All probably better off repeating Calc at college any way, just like pre-meds usually repeat Bio, no matter what grade they got on AP Bio exam.</p>
<p>Longhaul, if you are worried about spending $400 for your child to take Calc I at the local CC, then you might want to cover your eyes when his tuition/room&board bill comes for his first semester of college ;-).</p>
<p>If he really wants to get a head start on college, have him take Calc I at a CC during a summer session between his senior year of HS and his first semester of college.</p>
<p>^summer classes might be more expensive, as they are not covered by Merit scholarships, if a kid up for getting something some. D. has never taken summer classes for this reason and because she wanted to have a break. They do need a break, they are not as efficient during academic year if they do not take their breaks.</p>
<p>I’m an engineering student. The first semester starts off with calc 1, which you need to already have taken calc in highschool to get in. Your son is on track. Just make sure he doesn’t forget calculus with the year off from it. This is a problem even for college students who take a semester off in the calc1, calc2, calc3, diffeq sequence. </p>
<p>Taking calc at a community college is a good option. I’ve taken summer courses at community college for two summers and at $100 a credit, they are a steal.</p>
<p>The Lifetime Learning Credit might be used to offset some CC course costs. The credit is at a rate of 20%.</p>
<p>OP here – the student in question is NOT my kid, just a friend I am helping. If it were my kid I’d be fighting the school district much more than this family is willing to fight for an appropriate senior HS math course.</p>
<p>Taking the course between senior HS and freshman college at a CC does seem like a great option. </p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>This is exactly the kind of time wasting I hate (from the other thread). I’m also an engineer. </p>
<p>Here you have a lower income ambitious kid who is being held back from learning what he wants and needs to learn by budget cuts in a school district. It won’t affect his college chances, but it could easily affect how far he gets in his program because of the time wasted. Think of it this way. In college, you have 4 years to learn as much as you can before you hit the job market. Knowing more often makes you more valuable. Because Calculus is so critical to engineering, it is a huge advantage to have mastered it before you get to college. </p>
<p>Our country needs to do better, this is unacceptable. </p>
<p>I think that a general statistics class is inappropriate and a waste of time for this student. Even AP Statistics is too watered down, IMHO, for a future engineer. AP Statistics is a 1/2-year college course stretched out over a whole year. AP Calculus is a whole-year college course. </p>
<p>I think that statistics is a critically useful subject, but if he’s going to be an engineer anyway, he’ll be taking it at a more advanced level later in his program with the benefit of multivariable calculus and hopefully linear algebra. He will learn it at a much deeper level then, in about half the time, not double the time. At the HS level, it’s just not an effective use of his time if he could be advancing in Calculus. </p>
<p>I highly recommend that he find a way to take AP Calculus online or though a local college. Furthermore, if he’s taking some kind of Calculus this year, it’s worth understanding how much of the AP curriculum he’s already studying this year, and how deeply. It sounds like it’s not enough to do an AP test, but it must be something. AP Calculus BC, which runs about 50% faster than AP Calculus AB, may be more appropriate for him than AP Calculus AB since he’s likely seeing the “A” stuff this year. Is the former AP Calculus teacher still at the school. Maybe that teacher can be his in-school advisor and help him figure out an appropriate option. </p>
<p>I know that the following online programs offered by top colleges offer serious financial aid so cost shouldn’t be an issue. </p>
<p>epgy.stanford.edu</p>
<p>cty.jhu.edu </p>
<p>[Center</a> for Talent Development :: Welcome to Center for Talent Development](<a href=“http://www.ctd.northwestern.edu%5DCenter”>http://www.ctd.northwestern.edu)</p>
<p>You may want to do Google searches to get feedback on these courses from other CCers. Google:</p>
<p>site:talk.collegeconfidential.com EPGY Calculus. </p>
<p>site:talk.collegeconfidential.com CTY Calculus</p>
<p>site:talk.collegeconfidential.com CTD Calculus</p>
<p>The first two are self-paced, so it might be appropriate if he completes the “A” part this year. The CTD classes are more like classes with scheduled assignments, and may be better for someone who needs that kind of structure.</p>
<p>Thanks CRD.</p>
<p>My personal fear for the student is that if he is not prepared then he will drop out of the major. Our public doesn’t have a large portion of kids going to college and of that many wind up not sticking with science/math. But, this kid is motivated.</p>
<p>Our Rotary Club has some really good folks in it. I chatted with one of the members last night about the cuts and effects. Used this kid as an example without mentioning name. He said he’d look into seeing if they can come up with some funds to partial support an on-line class for the kid or at least transportation to the CC. I didn’t mention before that besides the cost of the CC class, commuting to it is impossible without a car.</p>
<p>My college doesn’t offer engineering, but it does seem that many students at my school who go straight to Calc II based on AP scores aren’t as prepared for college-level math as they expected. I personally think this is because high school AP calc classes generally use graphing calculators, while the calculus classes at my college do not.</p>
<p>My son called the other day to say that the graphing calculator is not permitted in his college math classes. It doesn’t bother him. But when I told my some of my students that, they freaked.</p>