<p>Hi all. I go to a top 25 UG, but not an ivy. I heard from a non-HYP ivy friend that most schools don't consider undergrad school, unless it's HYP. They also said that a 3.8+/174+ from HYP is almost ********* (not literally, but practically) at HLS, and to a certain extent at SLS, YLS, and Columbia. Is this true?</p>
<p>What is that censored word?</p>
<p>That's strange. The censored word is auto admit.</p>
<p>3.8/174 is pretty much a default admission (a much more accurate term) at Harvard and Columbia no matter what the undergraduate school is. This is not true for Yale or Stanford's law schools.</p>
<p>I say default rather than automatic because it is always possible to screw it up by missing deadlines, writing bad essays, or being sabotaged by LORs. Default means that you will be admitted provided that the rest of your application is serviceable.</p>
<p>The advantage that HYP schools give you, from what I've seen, is that schools will understand a low GPA from those programs provided that your LSAT is also very high. So a high LSAT, borderline GPA, and top-three school can get you in. Basically, having gone to Princeton is your "excuse," if you will, for having a low GPA. From what I have seen, it does not excuse a low LSAT score.</p>
<p>Several notes. First, HYS law schools do not do this. There is no need for them to forgive marginal GPAs or marginal LSAT scores. Second, the effect seems to extend beyond HYP for undergrad; it also seems to extend to the top LACs -- Swat, Williams, etc. I feel confident about saying that it does not extend all the way through the top 25 undergrads -- e.g. Berkeley/Michigan. However, I don't know anything about the schools in between (e.g. Duke, Penn). Third, another poster on this board (marny?) has shared a couple anecdotes which make me think that waitlists kick in very differently. But this is what I've seen from the intial-pool process.</p>
<p>Interesting, why do you consider Stanford more of a stretch than Harvard?</p>
<p>Stanford and Yale are the two schools in the country with a reputation for putting special emphasis on non-numerical factors -- you'll notice that high numbers are still basically a prerequisite for Yale, they're just not sufficient. Stanford compromises its numbers a little bit (you can see that it's not very much) to preserve their ability to value soft factors. A student with "low" numbers (by HYS standards) has a better shot at Stanford than Harvard; a student with spectacular numbers (even by HYS standards) has a better chance at Harvard than Stanford.</p>
<p>also, HLS accepts almost 3 times as many people as Yale or Stanford, because their classes are larger. This pushes their acceptance rates ever so slightly higher.</p>
<p>Numbers alone aren't enough for Yale and Stanford, which emphasize soft factors heavily. But I would agree that a 3.8+/174+ is a darn near lock at Harvard.</p>
<p>Outside of HYP, 3.8 is still low. Their average admit is 3.88/173, I'm not so sure one point above the 173 and .08 below the 3.88 would be a lock at all.</p>
<p>why does everytime I see Harvard's average gpa it seems higher? I remember seeing 3.81, then 3.86, and now 3.88?</p>
<p>Maybe it's the difference between those admitted and those who attend?</p>
<p>Either way - Ugh. Sigh.</p>
<p>Re: #9: I double checked, because I was surprised, but it turns out you're right.</p>
<p>But that's precisely my point. That for other schools, that's not really a lock, but that from HYP, 3.8+/174+ is. Or is that part not true?</p>