<p>@Inpersonal - We spoke last night and he agreed that it is in his best interest to re-take the SAT in October. He has 5 AP tests in May, as well as SAT subject test on May 4th, so I think it would be wise to let him get through them, and then during the summer focus on the SAT prep course. He’s not shortsighted.</p>
<p>I can’t speak for any other State, but in Florida going to a State School makes sense. Tuition is still very reasonable. And with a Prepaid contract and Bright Futures, college costs can be kept to a bare minimum. We just got back from looking at private LACs for my daughter as well as going to a Regional State campus. After looking at the Regional state school, it wasn’t really much of a choice. My daughter made her choice without regard to cost, which I told her not to worry about. The classes are still small and the student/ teacher ratio is 20:1, not bad. The facilities are first rate. If my daughter is going to spend four years of her life someplace, its really nice to have a Tier 1 fitness center, aquatic center, dining facilities, dorms etc rather than older, barely maintained facilities because of the cost of doing so. The admission requirements are still pretty competitive, she can do honors if she wants, and if she does well, she can always transfer out after one or two years. Its a win - win situation. I suppose we would have sent her to the University of Miami if she had wanted. Luckily, even she saw the folly of spending 55k per year (including room and board) for an undergraduate education at a none top tier school.</p>
<p>I feel bad for people who get rejected from all of their reach schools (looks like I’m about to be one of them). But I have no sympathy for people who say, “The only school that accepted me was my safety and I don’t like it!” That’s so stupid! Do people really put NO thought into their safeties? Especially when people say things like “It’s a big state school and I want a small LAC, it’s in a small town and I want to be in a big city, it’s close to home and I want to go far away, etc.” Don’t people get that they have options for their safeties and that no law says they have to use the first local state school that comes to mind?</p>
<p>As an international, I’ve seen other internationals like me pressured by their parents into applying to only the best colleges that give the most financial aid. The Forbes College Rankings top 50 colleges are great examples of those colleges. As a result, some have not gotten in anywhere!
I applied to a few safeties. Didn’t get in any of the colleges I really really wanted to go. Also, there is a lot of information failure. Some parents, like mine, are totally unaware of the admission process and college selection process. My parents were of no help to me, they gave me their blessings and told me the range of tuition they could afford Other than that, I had to do everything on my own.
Some guidance counselors also fail to provide complete and accurate information regarding college choices. I actually applied to some reach schools which I initially thought were safeties! So, as an international, I can only speak for some of my fellow internationals but I understand and sympathize with them…</p>
<p>I actually don’t buy that azazel. Anyone capable of using a search engine should be able to tell if the places that they are applying to are reaches.</p>
<p>Yep, we know a young man going through that this week. He applied to three top state universities (two in state, one OOS) and was rejected by each of them, not even waitlisted. I’d asked him a couple of months ago if he had any safeties, and he was sure he’d get into one of his chosen schools. I don’t know what kind of SAT scores he had, but I know him personally, and from the other appearances, he looked like he might be a good fit.</p>
<p>He’s understandably devastated. And as of a couple of days ago, he hadn’t even told his mom that his last school rejected him. I only know it because I read the thread here about acceptances, and when the emails went out. His mom only told me that he was expected to be rejected based on the other state school’s rejection. </p>
<p>It just kills me to think of this kid with so much potential having to go through a year of community college before applying again. And you are all right, it was a result of poor planning and poor advising.</p>
<p>Orion, I think most of the information published by American universities and colleges is data that’s mostly about and mostly relevant to domestic applicants. It is often harder, I think, for international applicants to know where the bar is set for them. “Higher,” sure, but it’s often hard to say exactly how much higher.</p>
<p>IMO, that makes it a lot harder to justify scapegoating Azazel by saying, “If you have an internet connection, you should have known better.”</p>
<p>Sent from my DROIDX using CC</p>
<p>“It just kills me to think of this kid with so much potential having to go through a year of community college before applying again. And you are all right, it was a result of poor planning and poor advising.”</p>
<p>I know a guy who went to a community college because he messed up in High School. From there he went to a good college, got into medical school, a neuro-radiology program and is now a teacher at one of the best research medical schools in our State, and in addition he has an outside consulting practice for lawyers where he makes in excess of one million per year paid by the insurance industry.</p>
<p>Knew another guy who went to community college, then a good college, law school, and now is a top lawyer making into seven figures per year.</p>
<p>Nothing wrong with a community college so long as the Student puts in the effort to do well. A year in a young person’s life is not a huge amount of time. Its what he does with that year that is important.</p>
<p>As an international I agree with azazel completely. I was entirely on my own throughout this process and results aren’t very good - only admitted to one school and waiting a final answer from another. Having a search bar doesn’t help, then why do American students have what they call guidance counselors, why do they visit the campuses of schools they are considering, they could all just Google that info. I just hope UT will admit me as I don’t want to go to UCSD which is super expensive without a scholarship, although I will go if there is no other choice…</p>
<p>I just hope things get better for future international applicants.</p>
<p>marbling - this kid may want to take a gap year and re-apply again as a freshman. If he takes a year worth of CC courses, he maybe considered as a transfer student, and transfer students tend not to get as much FA.</p>
<p>jamminj
Sorry I was too blunt. I was not trying to be intentionally offensive.
I am glad that so many posters agreed that it is in your kid’s best interest to retake the SATs, and that your kid is considering this.</p>
<p>[Rejected</a> to everything.](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1478999-rejected-everything.html]Rejected”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1478999-rejected-everything.html) </p>
<p>see this entire thread. most internationals like this shouldn’t get into top places. that’s why most of them are getting rejected from top and getting into safeties.</p>
<p>California’s rate might be high because they make “Cal Grants” available to in-state students who stay in state. It’s a great incentive since it’s on top of all the other aid available.</p>
<p>On the question of “safeties”. There is no such thing anymore. If you look at the results students are posting - it’s clear that the “game” has changed and that college, in general, is not a guarantee for even top students. Could be smaller colleges assume someone with good stats is going to go elsewhere. Could be a student assuming they’ll get a higher ranked college, just goes through the motion on their other applications.</p>
<p>What is clear is that the competition at all levels has become very tough. I met a student who applied to a number of “safeties” at the state and regional level and got full rides from many of them because his stats were so high. He assumed he could use that as leverage to get into MIT. He was wrong. And now I wonder if those same colleges are wondering (or starting to figure out) that some of the students are playing that game as well. Certainly one of my daughter’s top choices sent out a notice to all admitted students that they were not interested in seeing admitted student’s offers from other colleges because they didn’t care and it had no bearing on their own decisions. Nor would they negotiate.</p>
<p>So my best guess these days is - apply broadly - but do the research first. Look beyond the average scores and the USNews rankings or whatever quantitative resource you use - to see who makes up the student body. What are they doing outside of class? Inside? Where do they come from? What is the school philosophy?</p>
<p>There is a college for every student that wants one. It may not be the most prestigious - but with the right attitude - it could be a good experience nonetheless.</p>
<p>(Exception - all the for-profit colleges that advertise, have low graduation rates and high rates of student loan defaults. Those should be avoided at all costs even with their glossy telephone commercials and flyers).</p>
<p>@orion: I agree with @sikorsky, it isn’t as simple as googling the college you want to go to. Sure the internet contains a wealth of information but a lot of it especially on sites like this is subjective, with a lot of people sharing their experiences and opinions with you that may NOT apply to your situation. College rankings are deceptive and tend to differ. None of the colleges I’ve applied to state on their websites that if you don’t have this gpa or that SAT score then don’t even think of applying. We internationals can’t visit campuses to see if it’s a fit for us or not, some of us don’t even get interviews so there goes the ‘demonstrated interest’ aspect of our application. Some colleges may be put off by the amount of financial aid we need which may put us at a disadvantage. (There are a lot of reasons why a ‘good’ application may become unfavorable).
So it isn’t as simple as reading off the acceptance rates and deciding if a school is a match or a reach or a safety. Some colleges with acceptance rates of above 40% have rejected me while some have accepted me with financial aid. So it all comes down to the type of applicant you are and the type of applicant the colleges you’ve applied to are looking for. For that there is no definitive answer just guidelines.</p>
<p>It’s interesting to me that most southern states stay within their home state for college. I’m from Georgia, and even though I would have liked to apply to out-of-state colleges, I only applied to three Georgia schools- Georgia Southern, Mercer, and Emory, which was basically my only reach (although Mercer was a reach for merit aid, even though I ended up being offered a free ride). I think a lot of bright, small town kids- myself included- suffer from being raised in areas where the people have been around for generations and don’t really leave. Nobody bothers to show us- at least in my experience- that there are opportunities outside our county lines. In fact, my guidance counselors pretty much assume that every student is either going to Valdosta State or ABAC (it’s an agricultural college). Ever heard of those? Unless you live in the area, I doubt you have. No one ever told me I ought to start taking my SATs in the 9th or 10th grade, to do as much community service as possible, to research potential reach schools my junior (or even sophomore) year and see what I needed to do to get in (SAT II? Didn’t know it existed until last summer), etc. Everyone just assumes here that we’re all going to stay in Small Town, Georgia, forever.
Even worse, there’s a lot of pressure to attend schools just because of their names. Around here, everyone seems to think Mercer is the best school ever (people are more familiar with it than Emory), so I went to visit, even though it’s a traditionally Baptist school and I’d read many reviews online from students who felt like outcasts there because of the conservative, clique-ish nature there. I saw exactly what they were talking about and wasn’t terribly impressed, but made myself like the school anyways because I knew everyone would be impressed. The fact of the matter is, Mercer just wasn’t a good fit for me, socially or academically. A lot of people asked me why the heck I wasn’t applying to UGA, if I was so smart, but I know I wouldn’t feel comfortable at school that large with such a football-oriented student body- I’d be completely lost, and even though people (ON THIS FREAKING WEBSITE) are still saying how stupid I am for not applying to UGA, I stand by my decision. It’s a 6 hour drive, anyways, and compared to Georgia Southern, which I absolutely fell in love with when I visited, (2 hours and 45 minutes away), it wouldn’t make sense to go to UGA.
I honestly think Emory is the perfect fit for me, and I’m really not taking the fact that we can’t afford it very well at all. Their writing department is awesome, and I would really love to be a part of it, but I’ve read up on GSU’s and theirs has some really good things going for it. They have the only free-standing writing and linguistics department in the Georgia university system, anyways. Plus I’m going into the honors program, and an Emory professor himself (long story) told me I ought to feel good about going because it’s a good program
Anyways, I guess what I’m trying to say is that if you can’t attend a top 20 fancy shmancy school, then it isn’t the end of the world! If you’re smart enough to even consider applying to those, then you can make the best of your education anywhere. On another note, my brother is a freshman music ed major at the aforementioned, little-known Valdosta State, and even though musically he’s way ahead of his classmates and might fare better at a better music school, he’s had tons of opportunities. Their brass ensemble played one of his compositions at a concert, the piece was recently published and I think is now available for purchase, and he’s also been asked to compose a piece to be played at the college’s new president’s induction ceremony.
The good thing about going to state school is you get to be the big fish in a little pond!</p>
<p>I’m an international (Canadian) too; I’m not having all of these problems. Sure, financial aid has some effect; I think you’re over-blowing it though.</p>
<p>Okay…I gotta chime in too. My daughter took the SAT in January and got a 2120. She was happy with that. The she went to talk to her college advisor, (everyone at the school gets assigned one) and her college advisor said she has to take it again. Because she took it “early” …she said the college admission officers will wonder why she took it once, and didn’t try again! After all “everybody takes it twice” UGH! She further said if she took it in May, she would have still advised her to take it again. But Sept of her Senior year, she would have “all set”. I don’t know how to play this game, but if her College advisor tells her to take it again…she will.</p>
<p>Jammin,
As for how to self prepare for the SAT, first, buy the old, actual SAT tests from college board book. (This one is new, so don’t know what it’s like inside).</p>
<p>[Amazon.com:</a> The Official SAT Study Guide with DVD (9780874479799): The College Board: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Official-SAT-Study-Guide-DVD/dp/0874479797/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364864157&sr=1-2&keywords=sat+college+board]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Official-SAT-Study-Guide-DVD/dp/0874479797/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364864157&sr=1-2&keywords=sat+college+board).</p>
<p>Or here’s the older version for less money. Not sure what the difference is between the books, but I’m sure it’s been analyzed in the SAT/ACT section of cc.
[The</a> Official SAT Study Guide, 2nd edition: The College Board: 9780874478525: Amazon.com: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Official-SAT-Study-Guide-2nd/dp/0874478529/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364864157&sr=1-1&keywords=sat+college+board]The”>http://www.amazon.com/Official-SAT-Study-Guide-2nd/dp/0874478529/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364864157&sr=1-1&keywords=sat+college+board)</p>
<p>Then, go to the SAT/ACT section of cc, look up both Xiggi’s and Silverturtle’s guides to self studying for the SAT and follow the directions. Usually, you take the tests under timed conditions and analyze what you did wrong. The 2 new books have a comment on the correct answers.</p>
<p>Thanks, Xiggi!!</p>
<p>jammin— My son self taught for the SAT. He used the College Board Blue book and he also signed up for the SAT question of the day. CB emails 1 question per day. If your answer is wrong, they explain the error & explain how to reach the correct answer. He found it extremely helpful. Also, what YoHoHo said re: look up both Xiggi’s and Silverturtle’s guides to self studying for the SAT and follow the directions. Silverturtle sat for the SATs at the same time as my son. His comments on this board were incredibly helpful. I hope the following link is still good; it’ll give you Xiggi’s condensed version: [Xiggi</a> Advice.PDF](<a href=“File sharing and storage made simple”>Xiggi Advice).
Best of luck to your son. He’s very lucky to have you as his mom! Great work!</p>
<p>Jammin - My DS is a senior. He took both the ACT(32)& SAT(2100) fall of Junior Year no studying for them. AP’s & SAT II’s in summer Then in the fall of his senior year
ACT(34) & SAT(2150) with no studying. While the SAT didn’t go up much the ACT did. Kids learn a lot at school in their Junior year so it’s definitely worth it to have him take both again even if he ends up not studying for them.</p>