<p>I used strong language earlier about what I felt was overly judgemental rhetoric about Asian parents. Don't know why I feel so protective about this group. I work in a field with many Asians and have become close friends with many Asian parents. It bothers me how people insinuate that the fantastic accomplishments of many Asian kids are simply the product of slave driver parents, youths spent in joyless pursuit of test scores or the violin, etc. I just don't think this is fair. It makes me uncomfortable. My kids have grown close to several high-achieving Asian students and I am always struck by the JOY these kids bring to all their pursuits. I find the parents really refreshing, also. When another student excels, they are the first to congratulate and the sincerity is obvious. Here I go stereotyping, also! Anyway, I have never believed Dad II is an Asian father who works nights at a Chinese restaurant, etc. The sytnax and tone of his posts are really uneven. Something just isn't authentic. Someone on here speculated that it was actually his child posting as him. Maybe. We all have goblins in the back of our closets. No one is a perfect parent. Sometimes kids do dramatize their perceived injustices from a parent. And we're all a little over-the-top on CC to be spending our free hours endlessly working through our kids' college pursuits. I just don't know. Too darn weird.</p>
<p>I have nothing to say to Dad II. His concerns have been addressed (often with kid gloves) exhaustively by others. His self-indulgence, lack or restraint, and apparent lack of insight as he rails about his daughter make my blood run cold as I think about what his daughter must be going through. IMHO, what should be making him feel "really, really bad" is his conscience.</p>
<p>I do have something to say to high school aged lurkers who may be identifying with his daughter at this moment, as I think those kids are most deserving of parental concern.</p>
<p>If there is a kid reading this who is in a situation like the OP's daughter, I very much hope he or she will follow Northstarmom's advice and/or start his or her own thread on this board and get some support, if only a more rational sounding board. Cultural differences may help explain this sort of situation, but may not help the kid feel any better about herself. </p>
<p>I want to say to that kid: You are a good and valuable person. The way your parent sees you is not the way you are seen by the rest of the world, and I pray it is not the way you see yourself. You do not need to keep what you are going through secret, and you having nothing -- absolutely nothing! -- to be ashamed of, including possibly feeling of anger or humiliation. Your feelings are normal; what is going on at home is not normal. </p>
<p>I want to tell that kid: Getting less than a 36 on the ACT or a 2400 on the SAT does not make you stupid/lazy/inferior in any way. No rational person believes that. It does not mean that you will be less successful in college or in your life. It does not mean that you won't achieve wordly success or find a wonderful career. It does not mean that one single decent, rational person will look down on you. </p>
<p>And by the way, wanting to spend time outside of your home, away from the incessant pressure and criticism, the bitterness, the irrational and bizarre behavior (unplugging the computer just as the scholarship essay is due while saying God knows what in what tone of voice???) does not make you a bad son or daughter, lazy, or defiant. </p>
<p>Honoring your parents does not mean that you have to accept abuse and criticism that makes you feel worthless, to try to talk yourself into the idea that you somehow brought it upon yourself, or that if you were a better person this wouldn't be happening. </p>
<p>If you have a teacher or a GC or a religious leader or any other adult you trust, know that you are not betraying your parent or revealing something shameful about yourself if you talk to them about the pressure and criticism you've been experiencing. </p>
<p>And hang on. It gets better. You get more and more power to make decisions about your own life. You develop the ability to support yourself financially and to stand on your own feet emotionally. You move into the world where you aren't constantly in contact with people who continually run you down, but can surround yourself with people who respect and value you. You can choose friends, a spouse, mentors, who don't even think the kinds of things you've been hearing about yourself -- let alone say them. You can create a household where people treat each other with kindness, and where your kids don't even consider the possibility that their parents' love and esteem has even the slightest connection to where they go to college or some score on a standardized test. You develop your own values, chart your own path, and embrace experiences and relationships and adventures that have nothing to do with scores/grades/hooks and everything to do with your fulfillment as a human being.</p>
<p>Nicely done, CC.</p>
<p>Crossposted with CCSurfer and Jazzymom, but my intentions resemble CCSurfer.</p>
<p>I suggested the daughter not post on this board because the dad posts here and might recognize her posts, and well, it could make a tense situation worse. I wouldn't want that to happen. However, I hope the daughter is getting help and support from someone in her life -- friends, school, other adults -- and I hope that DadII can calm down and appreciate what he has and let go of some of his demands about how things have to be done. </p>
<p>I remember a Chinese family that I used to know once a long time ago -- my son's first babysitters. I remember the dad in that family saying that "children are our most precious possessions." Okay, I might argue about the word "possession", maybe I would say "gift" instead, but I couldn't argue with the love I saw in that man toward his baby daughter. What is more precious to us than our children? Your children are treasures, precious gifts, DadII, remember this, and appreciate the gifts you were given. </p>
<p>Some people in this thread have reacted to it by taking a long hard look at their own relationships with their children, or by taking the time to call them and tell them they love them. That to me, is touching, and I think that is what I am going to choose to take away from this thread.</p>
<p>DadII, hoping for the best for you and your children. Remember that you can think more clearly and make better decisions if you find a way to calm down and not be angry. Peace to you.</p>
<p>mstee</p>
<p>Lovely post. I was just talikng to one of my CC friends on the phone and we were hoping that some parents who are lurking here might let up on their kids. Or some student might say--hey, maybe I am ok after all.</p>
<p>A lot has been said about the OP's lack of appreciation of his daughter's success. I would like to offer a different perspective, perhaps one that's really difficult to understand. In Confucius teaching, one must always remember to be humble, hubris is frowned upon. It is not uncommon to hear Chinese parents telling other Chinese parents how bad their kids are doing at school when in fact they're doing quite well. Other Chinese parents will likely reply with similar comments about their own kids. They are actually quite proud of their kids, & they do not want to come across as boasting which is almost a sin in a society deeply rooted in Confucius teaching. </p>
<p>The OP has made the conscious choice to live in America, his kids are Americans by his own choosing, it's simply not fair to subject them to 2 cultural extremes. There ought to be a middle of the road (another Confucius teaching) & it's up to you to find it.</p>
<p>
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It is not uncommon to hear Chinese parents telling other Chinese parents how bad their kids are doing at school when in fact they're doing quite well.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is indeed a standard Chinese pattern of politeness. But, yes, the daughter is in the United States, and is expected to apply to colleges in the United States, and it sounds to me like she is doing fine and any parent should be proud of her.</p>
<p>I think I've figured out what bothers me with this situation. I'm the eternal optimist, and never want to give up hope that the whole family (OP has written of struggles with all family members) can resolve their issues with healthy results for everyone.</p>
<p>But what I realize is going on is that DadII (again, I'm the eternal optimist) has said over and over again how much he loves his daughter (and son, and wife) and how proud he is of her, but his actions say otherwise (the unplugging of the computer). I suspect he is modeling his own parents, and erasing some of those old messages is proving difficult (do you want to make a bet his own parents responded to his own weaknesses with the same shame he is inflicting on his daughter?). I do believe he loves his family and when posters here call into question his motives and stability, he interprets it as us saying he doesn't love his family, nor feel proud of his daughter.</p>
<p>It would help if his actions showed some reflection of his feelings more often, or if he admitted that he could see the 'other' perspectives offered, and seem remorseful (although I will say I have seen hints of remorse in other threads).</p>
<p>kwyml, your description is so vivid. I've learn the lesson long time ago (from my own upbring that how my mom treat us) that I remember to give my kid enough praise when he did his best, even the result was not what I expected. And tell him we really proud of him (the american way, and the positive attitude really worked)....nevertherless I love my mother dearly, whithout her, there would be no me today, which remind me call her right after.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The OP has made the conscious choice to live in America, his kids are Americans by his own choosing, it's simply not fair to subject them to 2 cultural extremes. There ought to be a middle of the road (another Confucius teaching) & it's up to you to find it.
[/quote]
Thats my sentimental exactly. We do our best to combine the best side of two cultural to raise our kid. Respect old and take care young; Strict but respect independant thinking.....</p>
<p>I resent people sterotype all aisa parents are like DadII. They may strict and put high expectation to their kids, but 'abuse'? I raerly see those TVed 'abuse' cases in american chinese family. For all these families that I have aquantent with, only one that I know has a DadII like dad, but even that not to that extrem......even with the high expectation to their kid, most that I know being through the 'high pressure' college admission process in china value the diversity education here even more. Avoid putting the pressure to their american born kids to go their own route, seeing there are so many different choices here. "if they are smart and motivate enough they will make it. If not, there is no use to push".</p>
<p>One sterotype may be true is seldom the first generation asia rarely seek out consuling.....if DadII is anything for real, I think he needs the consuling, or at least take some Zokor. unplug the electrical cord during his DD doing the scholarship application? He is really lost it. May be the two job stressed him out? </p>
<p>If the DD is as smart as DadII said, I doubt she will ever post here.</p>
<p>I don't think the electrical cord is such a a big deal. He unplugged the cord; okay, that was misjudged and shows lack of control, but he wasn't actually hurting his daughter- physically, at least. He was angry- he lost control- he sabotaged his daughter's and his own chances for gaining a scholarship. But taken as one incident, (and yes I am aware that DadII has done other things to support your judgment) it doesn't really say that much about his overall mental health. My own parents have done things like that in the past. And yes, while it was pretty traumatising at the time and definitely NOT something a parent should do, together we've gotten over each little incident pretty quickly. No person is perfect or can abide perfectly by what morality deems as "acceptable"-- that plug incident was just one incident. If you're disturbed by DadII's actions as a whole comment on that, but don't exaggerate one incident as proof that he's crazy.</p>
<p>But your parents should have better control, Keshira. Not all parents do those things.</p>
<p>
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But your parents should have better control, Keshira. Not all parents do those things.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Agreed. Not to say we haven't all done things we regret, but to deliberately sabotage something with the emotional weight that this whole process carries, is wrong. If he grabbed her cell phone in the middle of a conversation with her best friend and turned the power off, that would be one thing, but he undermined what has been a lifetime of creating who she is to get into the college of her dreams.</p>
<p>I will be honest, and I'm proud of this (compared to how I've seen some other moms behave). I have once in my life referred to one of my daughters to their face as a b**ch. I did it in front of her friends (where they had taken over to get ready for a dance); D was out of control, trying to demonstrate her one-upsmanship on me (or so she thought) in front of her friends and took it too far. I remember specifically telling the friends (who were in complete shock because they know I never do stuff like that) that I'd never done it before, but she earned it that day. We were ALL in shock. So what am I proud of? That I've done it once in their lives (D2 hasn't had the pleasure yet). I'm not looking for a pat on the back, but it shows I have restraint for 99.0% of the time with my kids... I am the adult (well, they really are now, too) and need to set the example of how we deal with our frustrations and anger. It doesn't mean that I don't get angry or frustrated with them, but how I deal with it is different. (It also doesn't mean that I haven't called them those names in my head, but as long as it stays in there and the way I respond to them is as an adult should)<br>
;)</p>
<p>Hey, I'll take your 34 ACT score :-)) I wish I had that score.</p>
<p>I don't think unplugging a cord out of anger is that big of a deal -- I've done things like that, though not related to college stuff or school assignments.... but way back when, I had some issues with my son's obsession with videogames, especially Grand Theft Auto... that did lead to some plug-pulling on my part. Nothing particularly wrong with losing one's temper at times. There have been a few deliberately smashed plates in my lifetime as well. </p>
<p>What bothers me is that the father is unable to acknowledge that the d's inability to turn in the scholarship application is his fault -- after the temper tantrum subsided, he is still blaming the d. rather than recognizing & acknowledging that he is at fault. (If he had simply grumbled and sulked and let the d. work on the application, and then she had missed the deadline because of her late start.. then it would be her fault, not his, and he would have every right to say I told you so and use this board to vent). </p>
<p>When my d. was in 11th grade I got ticked off at her for not studying for SATs and we had a big fight where I said some things that left her in tears. She did not sleep well that night and the next day she had a minor car accident because she was distracted & tired -- no injuries, but the the other driver insisted on reporting it to insurance and our insurance rates tripled. I always blamed myself for that--> if I hadn't yelled at my d, then she wouldn't have gotten upset, and the accident would never have happened -- so I never once said anything to my d. about the accident beyond "these things happen" and "I'm glad you weren't hurt". </p>
<p>It's not necessarily what we say or do in anger that is the problem -- it is whether we are able to acknowledge our mistakes, take responsibility, and apologize and make amends.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>was misjudged and shows lack of control, but he wasn't actually hurting his daughter- physically, at least.>></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>I'm sorry, but emotional abuse can be as damaging or MORE damaging than physical abuse. And it can continue for long periods of time because it is "invisible" to others.</p>
<p>Well, exactly, calmom. It wasn't the plug-pulling. It was putting the blame on his daughter for it. How often do abusers say, "She pushed me over the edge."? As far as we can tell, he's putting her in one no-win situation after another and then blaming her for laziness, procrastination, etc.</p>
<p>And yes, thumper, emotional abuse can hurt as much as or more than physical. I hope his daughter is able to shrug this off and move forward.</p>
<p>^^^agree with Bethie. Pulling of the cord is one thing. Blaming it on the daughter is the larger issue. And coming onto a public forum, unsolicited, starting a new thread, and blaming the lost scholarship on daughter is even worse.</p>
<p>Plug pulling of a video game is a healthy, positive, often necessary parental action. Plug pulling during an 11th hour scholarship essay admission is nuts.</p>
<p>What kind of a parent does stuff like this? Pulling the plug on a scholarship app? Outrageous! I feel sorry for your daughter, not you.</p>