<p>The OP says that 90% of the texts are to the boyfriend, not others.</p>
<p>Also the D had less need to text the BF when she saw him every day back in high school or over the summer. Now that she is away from home, she is texting him. Even the mom says when she comes home to visit him, the texts stop.</p>
<p>If the biggest problem is excessive texting then the OP is screwed because once she sets her limits then she has little leverage. Actually she will have none if the daughter decides to visit Cricket, Virgin, or any of the other companies with no contracts and unlimited text or voice.</p>
<p>Bottom line is texting is a symptom of the problem not the problem. Just like the car.</p>
<p>The mom cannot control the D’s use of text; you’re right. But the parent doesn’t have to pay for and enable the excessive use. Let her D have to pay for it and then decide how much she wants to do it and pay.</p>
<p>We, too, subscribe to the “love is unconditional, support is not” philosophy. </p>
<p>But my big takeaway from this thread is, be clear is setting/enforcing the conditional nature of financial support because you never know when you’ll need to fall back on those conditions! </p>
<p>I empathize with you on this count, OP, as we, too, have extended many privileges to our young adults “on earned trust,” without believing it necessary to define either expectations or limits on their use. But you situation is a poignant reminder that at any given moment, we could find ourselves in the same/similar situation. I subscribe to the “it’s never too late” theory of parenting, so I’m jumping on this with our kids and agree with the consensus here that it’s time for you, OP, to act swiftly and decisively in defining expected behaviors and both setting and enforcing consequences for failures to meet expectations. This probably won’t resolve your short-term concerns–as you’ve experienced, young lovers will find a way–but at least you will feel better knowing you aren’t facilitating affairs, plus you will know without a doubt it will help your daughter grow up. It’s also a prudent step for you as parents to take in managing your family budget and risks. </p>
<p>1- Parents’ college loan - It is too early to tell whether the return on this investment will be good or bad, but daughter’s behavior doesn’t inspire confidence in a good result. I agree it is essential to communicate grade expectations now. (Of course, the irony is, if she doesn’t make the grade and has to come home to go to junior college, she may be getting what she thinks she wants–sigh. OTOH, there’s a good chance the relationship would fade fast once the urgency and fervency created by their distance and deception is gone. Also, re-living the whole HS scene full-time might actually feel more young/inappropriate to her after the semester away at college.)</p>
<p>2- Car - Per OP, the title owner is “the father” (grandma gifted it to the family, it seems, rather than to the daughter). In many jurisdictions, father is legally responsible (with daughter) for daughter’s operation of vehicle. The excessive “stealth” trips to see BF not only take away from daughter’s college studies and socialization, but also increase the risk of accident causing injury/death to daughter/others and of moving violation, aggravated by the possibility daughter is driving at high-risk times of day/night, while fatigued, while texting or on the phone, possibly while UI, in an older car with greater potential for mechanical failure, etc. So daughter’s and others’ safety is jeopardized, and those liability insurance premiums are sure to go up in the event of ticket/accident. These are very real “prudent family budget/risk management” reasons for taking action over and above daughter’s repeated lies and breach of the trust on which extending the car privilege was based. I’d be inclined to immediately take away the car. The only factor that might favor laying down car rules and giving daughter “one last chance” is the fact daughter uses car to get to job a distance away. What does daughter use those earnings for? If the job is essentially funding daughter’s abilility to enjoy this high life, the car is withdrawn, she is unable to find alternate transportation to/from work and she can’t immediately land an on- or near campus job, then maybe her loss of the job is a blessing in disguise. The only issue would be coverage of any “necessary” funds for, e.g., the assumed Sunday night meal not covered by dorm meal plan, books and academic supplies, etc.</p>
<p>3 - Cell phone - I’m obviously in the “lying behavior entitles parent to withdraw support” camp; but here again, if OP wants to give daughter a chance to comply with a new texting rule, why not give daughter the shortest, clearest ultimatum possible, e.g., we receive our next bill Oct. 15, if it doesn’t show you are down to x texts per day beginning today, we are taking the phone away? I realize leaving a mad daughter without a cell likely means OP won’t hear from daughter/have a way to easily contact her for however long it takes for daughter to “grow up;” but life happened just fine before cell phones…</p>
<p>4 - Criminal sex - The age of consent is 16-18 in US states, most are at 16, many have “escape clauses” for consensual teen sex. OP, if you haven’t already, Google this to learn the statutory rape law in your state. If you learn your daughter IS violating criminal law, then obviously, tell her she is commiting a crime and you cannot “aid and abet” her to commit a crime, so you have to take the car away. If she’s a smart cookie, she may go back and research the statute, argue any applicable exceptions or affirmative defenses, ask, “Can I have the car back when BF turns 17?” (if that’s the legal age), or suggest, “You’re crazy, my BF doesn’t think he’s a victim, and his parents love me, who’s going to file charges?” That kind of discussion is exactly what you want–it’s an opportunity to have a mature back-and-forth with your daughter and model how adults must first identify the pros/cons/consequences of every choice before they make decisions.</p>
<p>5 - Safe sex - I don’t think it’s a parent’s business to get into their adult child’s sex life unless there are criminal implications (see above); however, if you haven’t clearly communicated any financial support consequence of an unplanned pregnancy, then that’s certainly advisable.</p>
<p>Best wishes on your journey, OP.</p>
<p>Thank you TXArtemis for the wonderful post.
I agree with everything you said.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Whatever you do, don’t encourage the boyfriend or boyfriend’s parents to file against your daughter for statuatory rape, or even inform them of the possibility, in an attempt to keep the two apart. Because if your daughter is found guilty of statuatory rape, she’s going to be on a sex offender list, possibly for the rest of her adult life. Every time a potential employer runs a check on her, there it’s going to be–sex offender.</p>
<p>Obviously, emphasize this risk to your daughter if it could be considered statuatory rape in your state . . . but don’t broadcast the information around. Including to the boyfriend. All it takes is one messy breakup and an angry ex . . .</p>
<p>I think eventually either she will realize or her friends her tell her that dating a junior in high school is (no offense) just weirdly wrong and inappropriate. With that said, it should work itself out…I hope.</p>
<p>The following thread just went up on the Parents Forum with a link to an article in the New York Times and it is fitting for the OP’s daughter (though should be changed to “Ditch Your Text Messaging, Dump Your Boyfriend.” :D</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1004683-advice-freshmen-ditch-your-laptop-dump-your-boyfriend.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1004683-advice-freshmen-ditch-your-laptop-dump-your-boyfriend.html</a></p>
<p>Thank you, Naturally. Some common sense regarding the ridiculous notion of turning your own child into some kind of criminal just to break up a relationship. Talk about over reacting.</p>
<p>They are two years and two grades apart. That is nothing if they were over 18. It still might mean nothing as it relates to this young woman’s maturity level.</p>
<p>I’m thinking if she’s that immature and naive the mother should watch what she asks for in encouraging a break up of these two. Especially in regards to the consequences of the potential dating pool of older men who could take advantage of such a young woman if she’s lonely or vulnerable. She is there alone and there would be no idea of what or who is taking up her time if this boyfriend situation breaks up before they are ready.</p>
<p>At least with the 16 year old you know he’s likely an emotional maturity match. I’m not sure I’d be comfortable with the notion of my 16 year old (maturity level) daughter being away from home alone, lonely, and needing someone to help her cope.</p>
<p>This boyfriend could be a gift. A blessing in disguise. Maybe not. But the notion of the parents not handling this situation properly by alienating her should at least be considered.</p>
<p>ls4218</p>
<p>How much money did you borrow for the Plus Loan for this D?</p>
<p>Are you supposed to pay that back or is your D? (You are legally responsible for the debt.)</p>
<p>Is there another Plus Loan distribution scheduled for spring semester? If so, I would put a halt to that or at least see what this semester’s GPA is.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think taking the Plus Loan away is too much at this point. This girl hasn’t made the best decisions, but at the same time . . . her decisions aren’t THAT horrible.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Seeing a boyfriend who is within two years of age of her . . . Might have an affect on her social life, but not objectively “bad.”</p></li>
<li><p>Driving around a car that her grandparents gave her. Not bad.</p></li>
<li><p>Texting 650 texts a day. Bad, but if she’s truly addicted she might need help / therapy to get over it. Try changing her phone plan a bit before you do anything else.</p></li>
<li><p>Staying over with / sleeping with boyfriend. Don’t know how the OP feels about this, but I don’t see it as being bad (as long as they’re using protection). They’re within two years of age and it’s a stable, long-term relationship. Teenagers have been having sex since the dawn of time.</p></li>
<li><p>Lying to parents. BAD, but the girl’s other option is to tell the truth and constantly get flack. I’m not saying her lies are okay, but I can understand why she would.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>If you use the big stick now–threatening to withdraw financial support–then what are you going to do when she starts doing something worse? (Because this is pretty mild compared to a lot of College Tales of Terror posted on CC!) What if she finds a way to take out more loans herself? Then you’ll have used up your big stick and she won’t have any reason / inclination to listen to you when she’s really in danger.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t take tuition away either, certainly not at this point.</p>
<p>I’d deal with the lying, the use of the car to travel on trips and the excessive use of texting. </p>
<p>I would make it clear the expectations with these and also an expectation that grades are over a minimal amount (just in case this becomes an issue since she is texting so much and isn’t studying at school on the weekends it seems either).</p>
<p>I wonder if the D is spending any time studying. I suggest that the OP make it clear now what the D’s gps needs to be each semester for parental support to continue.</p>
<p>Many romances of college freshmen end at Thanksgiving or Christmas. that may happen here.</p>
<p>naturally and denise, I don’t understand what your objection to information-sharing is.</p>
<p>I re-read what I wrote, and it says what I intended it to say: If the BF is not the age of consent in their state, have a conversation! </p>
<p>It may be easier to relate to their more common scenario of having this discussion with a son dating an underage girl…but there shouldn’t be any difference.</p>
<p>And it’s the same sort of discussion we have in our house about the criminal implications of drug and alcohol choices–and even the craziness of having to leave a situation where alcohol is present to avoid a “minor in possession” charge. </p>
<p>I do think it is vital that young adults understand that the law may be a factor in making any number of life decisions, ignorance of the law is no excuse, why we as parents won’t support her breaking the law–even when we don’t agree with it, etc.</p>
<p>
^^I think you meant for the OP to have a conversation with the daughter, not a conversation with the BF’s parents. No one wants to plant the seeds for potential legal action, but to make the daughter aware that she could be playing with fire with an underage minor.</p>
<p>I have had this conversation with my son when he dated older girls than he and when he dated a girl younger than what we thought was appropriate. He was made fully aware of our objections and the legality of the situation. After this step we resolved ourselves to the fact that we could either alienate him and send him underground (and to lies, deceit, and manipulation) or accept while not approve of the situation. We discussed this with the girls parents when appropriate. All of these situations were when he was in high school.</p>
<p>Now that he is in college I can’t pretend I have any control over his choices. I can only pray he makes good ones. </p>
<p>At no time would I ever consider turning him into authorities or putting the idea out in the universe for others to do so. If a kid can’t trust their own parents to protect or assist them even when, check that, ESPECIALLY WHEN they make poor choices then who can they trust?</p>
<p>*How much money did you borrow for the Plus Loan for this D?</p>
<p>Are you supposed to pay that back or is your D? (You are legally responsible for the debt.)</p>
<p>Is there another Plus Loan distribution scheduled for spring semester? If so, I would put a halt to that or at least see what this semester’s GPA is.*</p>
<p>I think taking the Plus Loan away is too much at this point. This girl hasn’t made the best decisions, but at the same time . . . her decisions aren’t THAT horrible.</p>
<p>I can understand the hesitation to take away Plus Loans, but if her grades are not “up to snuff” and she’s taking a light load that’s not leading to a degree or graduation within 4 years, then the parents have a right to speak up - regardless of the boyfriend situation. </p>
<p>These parents could end up with big Plus loans and a child without a degree after 4 years. </p>
<p>Part of being able to make “adult decision” such as spending all day texting a boyfriend and not being academically-directed is paying your own way. This girl is not doing that. The parents have the right as adults to not take out loans if they can see that academics are suffering.</p>
<p>I’m not saying to do this in a mean and yelling way. Just a simple…you have your right to make adult decision, so do we. </p>
<p>My parents made it quite clear to my sisters and me that if we ever moved in with a boyfriend, that they wouldn’t pay for our weddings. We knew that was a line that they had a right to draw…whether we liked it or not. The “line in the sand” wasn’t expressed in anger, just in a matter-of-fact manner. It didn’t cause divisions. None of us lived with boyfriends, our weddings got paid for.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids…your points are valid but what I think some of us are saying is that it is too soon to go that far. The mom has no idea if the D is succeeding at college in terms of academics. It is true that one has to wonder how she’ll do well if she texts 650 times per day and goes on visiting trips every weekend. So, what the mom can do now is set expectations (since there is some concern with the situation) that she expects a min. of a certain GPA and if that is not maintained, that staying at this school will not be an option on her dime. I think she deserves warnings and so on. But right now, there is no solid indication she has screwed up at college yet. But she should know the mom’s expectations “in case.” </p>
<p>Same with the car. The girl should have fair warning…"you can have a car at school if it is used to get to your job and to come home X amount of times in a semester that mom thinks is reasonable. If the car is used to come home every weekend, that is not permitted and the privilege of having a car at school will be taken away. When they parents let the D take an older car to school it was with the intentions that she could get to her job and also have transportation home for visits to her own home. If D abuses that privilege, she doesn’t have to have a car at school. </p>
<p>With text…she can set a limit of texts per month and if the bill indicates a greater number of texts, then a text limit will be put onto the phone, and D will have to pay over that amount. </p>
<p>Other than setting expectations and notification of the consequences, it is just too soon to go beyond that and get into paying the college loans and all. She hasn’t fully messed up “yet.” But she is doing some things that are not in her best interests and so fair warning should be given of what is expected for the things that are privileges that the parents are paying for.</p>
<p>Sorry to be so unclear, then…</p>
<p>Of course, I meant only that the OP talk with her daughter. I have never suggested talking with the BF or BF’s parents under any circumstance, about any subject–personally, I think that is rife with risk on many counts–and I sure didn’t mean turn the kid into the authorities!</p>
<p>Regarding the laws of consent, I knew no one had suggested taking it up with the boyfriend / boyfriend’s parents, but wanted to head the horse off at the pass in case it occurred to the OP. It’s a natural chain of thought–“Oh, maybe if I tell the boyfriend he’ll realize it’s risky for my daughter and back off.”</p>