<p>Just because straight women aren’t turned on by butch lesbians doesn’t mean straight men aren’t turned on by effete men. The dynamics are different because butch women do not have “that,” whereas effete men have an alternative. Look at Saudi Arabia. Straight men there are fine having sex with other men as long as they are “top.” This is the case for many Middle Eastern countries as well where women are off-limits on a daily basis.</p>
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Going out of one’s way attract someone unattainable is immature. It shows that the person isn’t ready for an adult relationship.</p>
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<p>Yeah, it is, and I’m not being sarcastic.</p>
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<p>Zoosermom, read through my previous posts. I stated very clearly that gay guys most likely won’t pursue straight guys as dating partners but that doesn’t change the fact that they can be attracted to straight guys and that in many cases, such attraction is uncontrolled.</p>
<p>“hard-pressed to find gay divas in remote corners of the world”</p>
<p>Couldn’t this be because gays aren’t even allowed to express the fact that they’re gay?</p>
<p>"“NSM, I don’t think you’re very familiar with the psyche of straight men well enough. They get turned on by transsexuals or effete males, believe it or not.”</p>
<p>That would make them bi lol</p>
<p>"Yeah, it is, and I’m not being sarcastic. "</p>
<p>Yes, I can believe that turning on a straight man is some gay men’s fantasy. I just don’t think that straight men are turned on by effete or trans men. Bi or gay men may be turned on by such men, however.</p>
<p>"Look at Saudi Arabia. Straight men there are fine having sex with other men as long as they are “top.” "</p>
<p>Those men may consider themselves to be straight, but I think they really are bi or gay. I also think that more people are bi than our culture allows or recognizes.</p>
<p>I don’t even understand nychomie’s posts anymore…</p>
<p>My point in post #99 stands.</p>
<p>NSM, FYI, trans men = people transitioning from female to male; trans women = people transitioning from male to female. One generally tries to respect people’s identity.</p>
<p>To say that a straight man attracted to a trans woman is ipso facto gay or bisexual is to assume that trans women are not women, and are really men. A proposition I strongly disagree with and find rather offensive, as you might expect. There are plenty of straight men who are attracted to trans women. They’re still straight, whether or not the trans women have had genital surgery. If someone wants to be with a man, they’ll be with a man, not a trans woman.</p>
<p>As for the so-called “admirers” (less politely known as “chasers”) – men who are specifically attracted to trans women who haven’t had surgery – there are way more of them than you might think. (It’s apparently the case that in most publications directed at straight men that carry ads for escorts, the ads by trans women usually outnumber those by women raised female. And from talking to trans women who were in that business whom I met back in my support group days, almost all their customers were married straight guys.) Personally, I think guys – and some women – who are primarily attracted to trans women who haven’t had surgery are neither straight nor gay; they’re their own orientation. Trans-amorous is a word sometimes used.</p>
<p>Conversely, in my experience, and from surveys I’ve seen, about 2/3 of trans women are primarily attracted to men, and about 1/3 are primarily attracted to women. Although plenty are attracted to both. </p>
<p>But none of this has anything to do with the topic of this thread. Sexual orientation and gender identity are not the same thing. Nor is it the case that trans women necessarily used to be “effete” men. When I was a guy, there were people who thought I was feminine, but I was never what’s generally called “effete” (there’s a difference), and few if any people thought I was gay. Which I wasn’t, in the sense we’ve been discussing.</p>
<p>PS: When I refer to straight men who are attracted to trans women, I don’t mean exclusively attracted to them; I mean men who might find a woman of trans history attractive in the same way they’d find any other woman attractive. (As opposed to “admirers” who <em>only</em> find trans women attractive.) And are secure enough in their own heterosexuality that they don’t freak out when they find out about that history. Believe it or not, there are such men. I have friends who’ve dated them and married them.</p>
<p>I’d just like to add a comment. When my son was in his early 20’s, not in college – he rented a room in a shared apartment where the primary tenants were gay. The gay master tenant was a delightful & charming guy, who I figured to be in his mid-30’s. My son got along great with his roomies, had an absolutely lovely, large room in a great neighborhood - but sometimes his roommate would get drunk, and when the guy was drunk he’d come on to my son. My son told me this simply because he thought it was amusing – I wasn’t bothered by it, as I have dealt with my share of overly amorous drunken men in my life, and I assumed (correctly) that my son was fully capable of taking care of himself. </p>
<p>The point is … its not all that big of a deal. There’s a lot of stuff that goes on in college that involves sex and fluctuating relationships, much of which is a potential source of discomfort. Straight roommates often bring their sex partners into the dorm room with them and do all sorts of embarrassing things; sometimes there is tension because of shifting relationships, such as one roommate getting together with the other roommate’s girlfriend. </p>
<p>Generally this is just one of those things that people deal with, in whatever manner is appropriate for them. There will be issue coming up – for example, maybe OP’s son will feel a little different about his comfort level if and when his roommate has a partner over for a visit – and they will work it out, just like other issues are worked out. They may have to agree on rules – of course it can go the other way around. Perhaps the gay roommate will be the one who is feeling dismayed when OP’s son is bringing young women to bed down in their room.</p>
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Quoted for truth. As a gay student myself with a wide circle of LGB friends from three different universities, I agree 100%. I’ve rarely seen roommate issues, and those I have seen almost inevitably involve a homophobic roomie.</p>
<p>Personally, I think living with someone tends to kill an attraction, not foster it. Living in close quarters with someone even when they’re grumpy, passing out drunk, sick, or a groggy morning mess? Not very romantic. ;)</p>
<p>^ Agree with warblersrule 100%, especially with that last part.</p>
<p>I really get the feeling that a lot of this argument is just because people are… not stereotyping, but generalizing. Yes, you’re always find gay men who love straight men. You’ll also find gay men who love gay men, straight men who love lesbians, blah blah blah. I’m sure some gay men/lesbians love the challenge of attracting a straight person, and plenty of us accidentally start liking straight people. [And quite frankly, the more responsible of us tend to distance ourselves from that person just to avoid all conflict.]</p>
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<p>Yep, exactly. This might just be one of those issues that older generations made a big deal out of that is still considered a little bit of an issue now but can be overcome much more easily. Coming on to somebody when that advance is unwanted is sexual harassment though, but if I were in his position, I also would not mind it (just as when girls get approached by some guys, they are repelled but sometimes secretly want the attention or at least would prefer some attention to no attention at all. this is assuming the advance is not distasteful).</p>
<p>You will be hard-pressed to find gay divas in remote corners of the world, for example, who don’t have exposure to Western media.</p>
<p>:rolleyes:</p>
<p>So in the Tiwi Islands the 4% of residents that are * sistergirls* are that way because of American culture?</p>
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Maybe this is why the divorce rate is skyrocketing.</p>
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<p>That doesn’t prove flamboyance is 100% innate. Again, it could be influenced by environment. Some cultures actually nurture/venerate it. I concede my statement regarding exposure to Western media is poorly expressed.</p>
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I also notice many gays also romanticize the idea of forbidden love, as in “omg he’s straight, I’m gay. This is so sad and I will make sure he knows it so he will give me at least a little bit of pity and think of me when he’s with his girlfriend.” I don’t think this is a good attitude to have, but YMMV.</p>
<p>“To say that a straight man attracted to a trans woman is ipso facto gay or bisexual is to assume that trans women are not women, and are really men. A proposition I strongly disagree with and find rather offensive, as you might expect. There are plenty of straight men who are attracted to trans women. They’re still straight, whether or not the trans women have had genital surgery. If someone wants to be with a man, they’ll be with a man, not a trans woman.”</p>
<p>Donna, I’m sorry if I said something offensive.</p>
<p>I didn’t mean to suggest that a man is gay/bi if attracted to a man who has transitioned or is in the process of transitioning to female – who regards themselves as a female and basically has had surgery to have female parts. I am talking about men attracted to men who dress up and put on make-up like women, but still have male parts, but are basically cross dressing. I’m not sure what to call them. I have heard here that “drag queens” is considered offensive, though one person in my theater group calls himself a “drag queen” and does performances at clubs in that kind of attire.</p>
<p>I think that someone who is straight and is attracted to someone whom they think is of the opposite sex would not be attracted sexually upon finding that the person has the body parts of their own gender. At least, I don’t think I would be attracted to a person whom I had thought was male, but then found out the person had exterior female sex organs. I’d think that someone would be bisexual if they continued to be attracted to such a person.</p>
<p>This is different than being attracted to a person who has had the exterior surgery allowing them to transition physically from male to female.</p>
<p>The two women whom I know who have romantic relationships with men, who think of themselves as female, but haven’t had the surgery to transition, have had consensual romantic relationships with men and women, but consider themselves to be lesbians. My guess is that a woman who has only been sexually attracted to women isn’t likely to be sexually attracted to a person who considers themselves to be female, but has male sex organs.</p>
<p>But, my thoughts are all conjectures, so I fully admit I could be wrong and Donna’s comment below could be right:</p>
<p>“Personally, I think guys – and some women – who are primarily attracted to trans women who haven’t had surgery are neither straight nor gay; they’re their own orientation. Trans-amorous is a word sometimes used.”</p>
<p>I am so confused by all of this. Why would a gay man be attracted to a man who was very feminine. Why not just a female? And why are many lesbians attracted to “butch” women. Why not just a man? Why do we see so many homosexual couples where one “plays or looks like” the male and one “plays or looks” like the female. </p>
<p>This is not meant to be mocking at all… I have honestly been curious about this for awhile.</p>
<p>I am getting a bit of an insight from nychomie. Gay men are actually often attracted to straight men. That makes more sense to me.</p>
<p>I agree with one of the above posters, if I were to get involved with a female lover, I would want her to be very feminine and hopefully beautiful.</p>
<p>The group is possiting many things. I go back to the original posts. What is the issue? If the OP’s son is not interested then what is the issue? Roommate is gay. So what?</p>