<p>I feel the need to add my comments about UVA’s admissions results, especially within the context of this year and last. I have carefully observed the stats of those students excepted from our competitive IS high school, since class rank is posted at the end of the year. Here goes- and it is pretty simple: the top 10% are in, those in the top 15% are out- either waitlisted or denied, unless they are a legacy or URM, or one of their parents is affiliated with the University. There are students in the top 10% with considerably less rigorous course loads who took the easier weighted courses than those who took the toughest AP Math and Science courses, worked harder and got a couple more B’s. For example AP Art History counts the same as AP Chemistry. So back to that age old question… Is is better to take the hardest course load and get a lower GPA or take the guaranteed easier route and get a higher weighted GPA? It is clear that at our school, class rank trumps all in UVA admissions. The quality of EC’s don’t seem to matter much either, unless you are a recruited athlete. So then I have to ask, when UVA receives 22K + applications- what is the sorting process? GPA, SAT’s and Class Rank are placed on a form on top of the folder, or maybe entered into the computer. I would bet only the URMs, the top 15% and those who hit the SAT benchmark are the applications chosen to be read first. Does anyone really believe that all 22k + essays are read? This is just my opinion, but I have heard about this sorting process from a previous UVA “reader” first hand. I know it is a “holistic” process- maybe it is for those in the top 15%. BTW, I have yet to hear of any student being rejected at our high school who placed in the top decile.</p>
<p>Very interesting forevermom. Thanks. I suspected as much but didn’t realize it was so clear cut. I know of one exception though. One girl in our HS was one of several valedictorians but had a 1260 SAT and was waitlisted. She is now Phi Beta Kappa at another college.</p>
<p>4everamom, what area of the Commonwealth are you from? In our area, NoVa, my observation at the larger public schools is that more like the top 5% are admitted, with the exception that some URMs outside the top 5% make it in. The big exception, of course is TJHSST, from which it was reported by an earlier poster that well over 50% of the class was accepted in 2009.</p>
<p>At our school with 600+ in the senior classes, there has never been close to 60 students accepted in one year. Then again, there are not 60 students with 4.0+ averages, weighted or otherwise. Based on my observation, in recent years, the minimum GPA for acceptance at our high school is 4.0, unless a student has some really outstanding plus factors.</p>
<p>ditto AVA55, I went to Robinson for example, and it was pretty much all the valedictorians who got in, everyone else was shut out (and this was…6 years ago)</p>
<p>FOR THOSE REJECTED
[When</a> Success Follows the College Rejection Letter - WSJ.com](<a href=“When Success Follows the College Rejection Letter - WSJ”>When Success Follows the College Rejection Letter - WSJ)</p>
<p>@stupefy, I stand corrected about the stats, as I said I might be, but the point remains that the school is competitive enough to not be regarded as a safety for almost any OOS student. Your experience is a testament to this fact.</p>
<p>@jumpseat, I responded to your original post, despite the unpleasant overtones of racial jealousy. Others responded to that post as well. Your comments about race being all that matters are out of line for many reasons, the most important of which is that it is entirely appropriate for Universities to enrich their classes with members of under-represented groups.</p>
<p>4everamom I feel your pain. Everywhere we went we asked the same question of admissions staff, do you look at GPA or do you factor the difficulty of the course load? Specifically the calculus question came up (AB or BC). Don’t know the answer, all we got was “We want the BC Calc with an A”. I’ve seen kids with what I would call a weaker schedule and higher GPA get into schools over those who took the demanding path and had a lower GPA as a result. On average it seems that the demanding path worked for the majority of students at our high school with very few exceptions (maybe 1 of 12). I will say this; the average SAT scores were well over the average range for all of the students accepted. None of them were in published 50% range.</p>
<p>@ Nigiri…sorry for obviously hitting your nerve on this truth. I’m not stating anything but facts am I? Seriously, why should race be ‘very important’, among the highest criteria in selecting a student? Don’t BS with the stale ‘diversity’ verbiage. Economic background adds more diversity than race. And economic background comes in all races, but there’s zero exception for these applicants. There are many very well to do minority races that add no special representation at all; it’s just a windfall admission with nothing to do with achievement. </p>
<p>It’s 2010, the country decided to elect a minority president who’s done better than his predecessor, and affirmative action is as obsolete as rotary dial telephone just about everywhere…except UVA.</p>
<p>@jumpseat, race and economic background are correlated, so some of that is embedded in the ethnic breakdowns. In all you angst, you neglected to notice that the acceptance rate for African Americans has been approaching the mean for other students rather steadily over the years. This is probably a reflection of real, though incomplete, social progress. </p>
<p>There is not “zero exception” for students from unprivileged backgrounds, as you claim. You are uninformed. A student from SW VA is more likely to get in with equal stats than is someone from NVA for this reason - there is an acute awareness of the need for that kind of diversity here. Access UVA is a program dedicated to make the University affordable regardless of background, this helps everyone. Universities make substantial financial sacrifices to make higher education accessible to those with less privileged backgrounds. </p>
<p>You dismiss this as stale verbiage, but it isn’t. I am at UVA, and it is a far better place than it would be if admissions went straight with numbers. UVA could fill their in state numbers with rich kids from Northern Virginia and the suburbs of Richmond, but they seek the economic diversity that you say they don’t.</p>
<p>Finally, you single out UVA, apparently because the school is open enough to publish all their data on the web. If you look for similar data from Harvard, MIT, Notre Dame, you’ll find the same trend. So, you can debate about using race as a basis of admission if you want, but don’t single out UVA as if it were some backwater institution.</p>
<p>I will also add that UVA has consistently had one of the highest graduate rates of African American students in higher education, so they are doing something right …</p>
<p>Stupefy and others,</p>
<p>I’m coming late to the discussion, and the only reason I’m posting is that I have a ton of experience with elite selections processes. In the 1980s, I ran the selection for the Telluride Association Summer Program, a humanities program for smart students, for a number of years; I also served as a faculty representative to the admission comm of an Ivy university, and later ran admissions for a top-ranked humanities PhD program. But now I’m the parent of a high-achieving but not “perfect” son, applying to super-selective universities and experiencing a mix of acceptance and rejection (mostly the latter). So “I’ve looked at life from both sides now” and feel I have a good perspective.</p>
<p>Frankly, at this level, finding superb candidates to fill the entering class of any elite university is like shooting fish in a barrel. There are just tons and tons of wonderful applicants. From the institution’s point of view, the important thing is that they assemble a fine class, not that they do justice in each individual case. It’s not true that, as some people have said, “it’s a crap shoot,” because university admissions comms work very hard and, other things being equal, kids with fabulous stats and accomplishments will do much better than those without. However, virtually any application has strong points and weak points, and different admissions comms (and readers within admissions comms) will assess those differently. Trying to figure out “what went wrong” (or right, for that matter) from outside the process in any particular case is like trying to read tea leaves.</p>
<p>Therefore, excellent students who aspire to attend top institutions are, in my opinion, unwise to pick “dream schools” in advance or to have too much of their sense of self-worth riding on any particular admissions decision. (I therefore did not let my son visit the places he has applied; I told him he could do that after–if-- he got in.) Instead, such students should apply to a bunch of good schools, plus a clear safety, and figure they will probably get in somewhere. I’ve taught at and attended a bunch of these schools and frankly, there is not a whole lot of difference in the education offered there. It is very much in the interests of each university to brand itself as uniquely fabulous, but this is, in my opinion, a form of advertising and should not be taken to heart. Just because of the inevitable imperfections of the admissions process, no single school has a lock on the “smart people” and you will find wonderful students and faculty all over.</p>
<p>Another observation: from among elite applicants to a college, it’s impossible to tell which ones will turn out to be wildly successful in “the game of life,” and which ones will be less so. I’m still in touch with a lot of my students from Top Ivy in the 1980s, and from TASP, and while many of them have had exactly the successes one would predict for them at 18, others have floundered. Factors like resilience in the face of heartbreak are generally not visible on a college application–in fact, many adolescents have not yet had any reason to develop such traits–but they are the ones that are going to make a big difference to adults.</p>
<p>Excellent post! thank you.</p>
<p><<<therefore, excellent=“” students=“” who=“” aspire=“” to=“” attend=“” top=“” institutions=“” are,=“” in=“” my=“” opinion,=“” unwise=“” pick=“” “dream=”" schools"=“” advance=“” or=“” have=“” too=“” much=“” of=“” their=“” sense=“” self-worth=“” riding=“” on=“” any=“” particular=“” admissions=“” decision.=“” (i=“” therefore=“” did=“” not=“” let=“” son=“” visit=“” the=“” places=“” he=“” has=“” applied;=“” i=“” told=“” him=“” could=“” do=“” that=“” after–if–=“” got=“” in.)=“”>>></therefore,></p>
<p>Boy, do I agree with this, that students not visit schools, pre-acceptance, because such visiting augments the feelings of “romance” for a school that may not pan out. My daughter was all set to apply to multiple schools, of the same sensibility–geographically, intellectually, politically, size-wise, etc.–and then hurriedly visiting upon getting in. </p>
<p>The only reason she didn’t follow the above protocol was that, surprisingly, she “fell in love” with Tufts, after exhaustive research, applied, and got in ED. Otherwise, she would have waited for RD decisions and then gotten on a plane.</p>
<p>Parents would be advised to let their kids do some reliable research–which can be done on-line and through current and prior students–apply, get accepted, and then visit. Much less heartbreak, I think.</p>
<p>jingle - thanks for the great post</p>
<p>I first had the same thought as you said. But Stupfy is also on waiting list from Duke. I think there properly something wrong or explanation is needed in her application. Washington Univ AT St. Louis is infamous for protecting yield and putting strong students on waiting list. </p>
<p>SWHarborfan</p>
<p><<i personally=“” believe=“” you=“” were=“” waitlisted=“” because=“” uva=“” thought=“” would=“” not=“” accept=“” the=“” spot.=“” yes,=“” i=“” know=“” they=“” deny=“” do=“” that=“” but=“” call=“” bs=“” on=“” that.=“” clearly=“” deserved=“” a=“” spot=“” and=“” either=“” didnt=“” or=“” someone=“” in=“” admissions=“” just=“” completely=“” dropped=“” ball=“” screwed=“” up.=“” (and=“” have=“” no=“” ‘dog=“” this=“” hunt’,=“” my=“” child=“” has=“” not,=“” nor=“” will=“” be=“” applying=“” to=“” uva)=“”>></i></p><i personally=“” believe=“” you=“” were=“” waitlisted=“” because=“” uva=“” thought=“” would=“” not=“” accept=“” the=“” spot.=“” yes,=“” i=“” know=“” they=“” deny=“” do=“” that=“” but=“” call=“” bs=“” on=“” that.=“” clearly=“” deserved=“” a=“” spot=“” and=“” either=“” didnt=“” or=“” someone=“” in=“” admissions=“” just=“” completely=“” dropped=“” ball=“” screwed=“” up.=“” (and=“” have=“” no=“” ‘dog=“” this=“” hunt’,=“” my=“” child=“” has=“” not,=“” nor=“” will=“” be=“” applying=“” to=“” uva)=“”>
<p>The kids I know who were accepted to UVA, this year, had 2300+, 700+ on subject tests, and over 4.0s. And I know 4 of them.</p>
</i>
<p>I totally agree that “there is not a whole lot of difference in the education offered there”. Think about that, it is ridiculous to ask student writing an assay how she/he fit the college and to use the assay for admitting students. </p>
<p>Jingle"Therefore, excellent students who aspire to attend top institutions are, in my opinion, unwise to pick “dream schools” in advance or to have too much of their sense of self-worth riding on any particular admissions decision. (I therefore did not let my son visit the places he has applied; I told him he could do that after–if-- he got in.) Instead, such students should apply to a bunch of good schools, plus a clear safety, and figure they will probably get in somewhere. I’ve taught at and attended a bunch of these schools and frankly, there is not a whole lot of difference in the education offered there. It is very much in the interests of each university to brand itself as uniquely fabulous, but this is, in my opinion, a form of advertising and should not be taken to heart. Just because of the inevitable imperfections of the admissions process, no single school has a lock on the “smart people” and you will find wonderful students and faculty all over."</p>
<p>
I agree. too bad they wont tell me!</p>
<p>Stupefy have you tried to call UVA admissions?</p>
<p>^no I did not. i tried calling duke and they wouldnt talk about my specific app (just said some words of consolation) so I’m not going to bother</p>
<p>Stupefy, why don’t you just forget about UVA for now? Agonizing over it isn’t going to help.</p>