<p>I'm not trying to act tough. I'm telling you that the point of this message board is to provide constructive criticism, not beat up on someone who is down.</p>
<p>you should seek help from the school administration with your mental state and money issues</p>
<p>your grades are not bad, and you are at one of the best business schools in the country. You will be fine in this regard. Focus on getting the other stuff in line. Your grades are good enough to land you some nice work (with some nice $$$) in a year's time.</p>
<p>Man, now I'm feeling antsy about going to Penn.... I don't have cash coming out of my ears :(</p>
<p>I went to an Ivy on a need-based scholarship, and have taught at a 2nd/3rd tier public, and have taken classes for fun in recent years at a 2nd tier public. </p>
<p>The students at the public institutions flaunted their money far more than did students at my Ivy, and also were far more insensitive and ignorant about people who were not wealthy.</p>
<p>From what I've seen of Ivies (and I've also been a corporate recruiter at several), part of the selection process for Ivies is attempting to select students who also are genuinely interested in community service and making the world a better place. That's not the case at most public universities, which select students virtually 100% on stats and what state the students reside in.</p>
<p>When you read the OP's concerns, realize that he has nothing to compare U Penn with. My belief is that he would have had an even worse experience at many public universities. </p>
<p>I've also noticed that students who are having to work their way through college -- any college -- tend to be hypersensitive to perceived slights by higher income students. It is not likely that the majority of students at Penn are looking down on students who don't have that much money. After all, by virtue of being at Penn., one already is in a very exclusive club. When it comes to Wharton, for all any student knows, the low income student sitting next to them may be a millionaire or very famous in 10 years.</p>
<p>For instance, I was at Harvard a few years ago when an alum in his 30s -- who had been a first gen, low income student -- donated megabucks to fund an endowed chair. Any student at a place like an Ivy who writes off a peer for being low income is being foolish indeed.</p>
<p>Brilliant post, northstarmom.</p>
<p>
The fact that one is in the Ivy League -- the cachet, the contacts, the education-- already puts him in a higher class when it comes to how most people would perceive things.
</p>
<p>I'm not sure the contacts would be of much help in this case, given the way he says he gets along with his peers.</p>
<p>After he graduates, however, he'll be eligible for alumni clubs and activities, and may be more comfortable with his Penn peers then. He'll always be a Penn alum, so will have plenty of time to become comfortable with people who attended his alma mater.</p>
<p>This isn't a problem reserved for Ivy League schools. Rich kids are everywhere, even the local state U, as are people who don't work for the opportunities they get. Whether it be money, jobs, grades, or social life, some people are born into opportunity. My friend's brother, also at UPenn, has found at his (prestigious) job this summer that few people work for their money. Life's easier rich. But you're not rich. If finances are a serious strain, petition for financial aid or find a cheaper school with merit aid. Otherwise, just use your experience at UPenn to motivate you to work harder than those who have never really worked.</p>
<p>i think you should leave. go where you'll be happy. screw prestige</p>
<p>The guy should stay at Wharton. Anyone who says he should screw prestige is just jealous of him.</p>
<p>The kind of negative attitudes portrayed in this thread are very similar to the types of attitudes I am referring to at my school. When I say that I need to save my money/can't afford to do something/need to work, I essentially get these really snappy comments about money from people who obviously have never done the math, nor have ever really considered how much being at Penn really costs. It's easy to call someone cheap for not spending money when you're financially content and taken care of. </p>
<p>I'm not after sympathy or pity, and it's not like I actually have it easy and choose to just whine about it. Anyone who says working 80-85+ hours a week is easy, or that working two 15-20+ hour jobs during the schoolyear (at an Ivy, no doubt) is easy, they're just talking out of their and actually have no idea how difficult it is. A lot of people here only have classes to worry about in addition to having a financial backing, which is just HUGE. A lot of people don't understand how powerful and wonderful that is. To reply to Northstarmom, it's not that I am hypersensitive to perceived slights. They are direct, outright insults. I've literally been told (by more than one person, mind you) that I don't fit in here because I don't have enough money. That I'm a waste of space who should have given his spot up to someone who would get to use it. That I will never be as successful as those who already have connections/money to begin with. The list goes on. If I'm being "hypersensitive" to such things, then I don't know what would be considered more direct.</p>
<p>Yeah, I have a sub-average Wharton GPA. Yes, a lot of people would like to be here. Would someone else have likely been more "efficient" in my place? Sure, but that's not the problem here. I was accepted to many schools because I was a good student with a good mind and personality with lots to contribute, but unfortunately money and emotional trauma just got in the way once the reality of a bad chain of events unfolded after the fact. </p>
<p>I am not sure how many of you attend Ivies, but they're not some sort of be-all-end-all ticket to easy-street. It's not easy. People here work very hard when it comes to academics, and it's even harder to compete with that when there's a lot of excess on your plate.</p>
<p>I appreciate the kind responses in this thread... as for the not-so-kind ones, I don't know what your problem is. There's really no reason why you should be so critical of my situation. I'm a good person that works hard. There have just been so many downhill turns along the way, and they've been very difficult to deal with.</p>
<p>It's all about the choice you make.</p>
<p>Your situation is frustrating, and it's even harder when you have to hold everything in by yourself.</p>
<p>I'm hoping the thread helped you release your stress a little bit. Writing about a problem you have, or typing in this case, no matter the type of audience it's intended helps you gain a clear perspective.</p>
<p>Others will continue to bring you down. You have the choice to ignore them and continue working on what matters to you.</p>
<p>You can make the right choice.</p>
<p>"I appreciate the kind responses in this thread... as for the not-so-kind ones, I don't know what your problem is. "</p>
<p>I believe that most such remarks come from envy of your going to one of the top universities in the world. Ignore them.</p>
<p>"When I say that I need to save my money/can't afford to do something/need to work, I essentially get these really snappy comments about money from people who obviously have never done the math, nor have ever really considered how much being at Penn really costs. It's easy to call someone cheap for not spending money when you're financially content and taken care of. "</p>
<p>I am curious about why you are telling such people about your finances. Sounds like you are socially hanging out with these people. If so, why? They sound like insensitive jerks to be avoided. </p>
<p>I have friends who have much more money than I'll ever have. They are really nice people. Not all well off people -- including at Ivies -- are insensitive jerks who make fun of people who don't have as much money as they do.</p>
<p>I do wonder, however, if there's any chance that because your classmates know that Penn guarantees to meet students' demonstrated financial need, your classmates think you are working so hard because you are a workaholic or are very cheap. After all, since your mom is refusing to pay anything for your college education even though she has some financial resources, your situation is different than is the case for probably virtually any other person in your class at Penn.</p>
<p>Given Penn's financial aid policies, it's unlikely that many if any other students are having to work as hard as you are to cover the costs of Penn. Even students who come from families below the poverty line wouldn't have to work 15-20+ hours a week during the school year nor would they have to pinch pennies as you're having to do. I actually know a low income student at Wharton who definitely doesn't have the financial burden that you have there.</p>
<p>"Yeah, I have a sub-average Wharton GPA. " Your "sub average" GPA at one of the nation's most exclusive universities will open many doors for you and is nothing to worry about or apologize for.</p>
<p>"I've literally been told (by more than one person, mind you) that I don't fit in here because I don't have enough money. That I'm a waste of space who should have given his spot up to someone who would get to use it. That I will never be as successful as those who already have connections/money to begin with. "</p>
<p>I can not think of any reason why you would continue to engage in conversation with people who would say things like that. You don't have to justify to them your being at Penn. If anything, the onus would be on the rich people and legacies to justify what they did to deserve to be at Penn. since they are the ones who can get doors opened for them through personal contacts, donations, legacy, and expensive college consultants paid for by doting parents. It's much, much harder for people like you to get into a place like Penn. than it is for the people with silver spoons in their mouths. </p>
<p>You seem understandably very stressed and depressed and part of this also could be due to your not having had much time to grieve your father's death because after all, you've been very busy with school and work . It could be a good time to take a year off so you get some time to have some relaxation. Even working "just" a fulltime job would be relaxation for you since you wouldn't also have to juggle coursework.</p>
<p>If you don't take a year off, I hope you'll utilize the college counseling center, which given the fact that it's at a top university and is in one of the cities that has some of the best psychological resources in the country, should be able to provide excellent support for you.</p>
<p>"I am curious about why you are telling such people about your finances. Sounds like you are socially hanging out with these people. If so, why? They sound like insensitive jerks to be avoided."</p>
<p>I don't tell them about my finances -- it's just that it sort of becomes obvious when I continually opt out of things or say that I am busy and have to work. My issue is that I seem to continually run into these type of people.</p>
<p>"I do wonder, however, if there's any chance that because your classmates know that Penn guarantees to meet students' demonstrated financial need, your classmates think you are working so hard because you are a workaholic or are very cheap. After all, since your mom is refusing to pay anything for your college education even though she has some financial resources, your situation is different than is the case for probably virtually any other person in your class at Penn."</p>
<p>That's one of the problems I was trying to get at here, exactly. Penn does indeed try to meet need, but if the parents have the resources and make the student fend (for both school and personal expenses), it's the worst possible combination.</p>
<p>"I can not think of any reason why you would continue to engage in conversation with people who would say things like that. You don't have to justify to them your being at Penn. If anything, the onus would be on the rich people and legacies to justify what they did to deserve to be at Penn. since they are the ones who can get doors opened for them through personal contacts, donations, legacy, and expensive college consultants paid for by doting parents. It's much, much harder for people like you to get into a place like Penn. than it is for the people with silver spoons in their mouths."</p>
<p>While I agree with this, I seem to find these people everywhere. And then I cut myself off from them. I just hate that I find myself constantly pushing people away because I find out they're the type of person to try to make me feel like less of a person because of money.</p>
<p>maybe you should hang around off campus with the thugs, gangsters, drug dealers, ex cons, etc. to get a different refreshing perspective of life</p>
<p>I feel for you man. Stay strong, be optimistic. You'll look back on this in ten years and feel proud about how far you've come.</p>
<p>hey legend,</p>
<p>so i read most of these posts and i will have to agree and disagree on some of the things i've seen.</p>
<p>first of all, you need to stay focused. it may be tempting to stray off this difficult path you've been on for the past three years. come to think of it, would you really want to put all that hard work to waste? you just need to get yourself together. work hard during the summer, but when school starts, go to the financial aid office and talk to the counselor. ask to discuss some of your options. perhaps take out more loans and cut back on the hours?</p>
<p>a 3.0 at wharton is still impressive in my eyes. given your circumstances, i believe you are doing the right thing. i'm sure that's what your father would've wanted anyways. the thing you must realize is: you can't give up. when you look back to high school days, i'm sure you are able to recall certain nights where you just wanted to go to bed and stop studying. in the end though, when you were on the stage being recognized as the school's valedictorian and receiving your diploma, you cannot tell me you didn't have great pride in yourself at that moment can you? the same goes for wharton. you are here and you have survived three years. that is not an easy task. continue but make a few arrangements.</p>
<p>sure the people there have things handed to them on a silver platter. however, this is not everyone. i suggest getting to know more people. since you don't have the time to socialize, how about try meeting people in class? that is a way to start isn't it? give it a chance. the people are harsh but your mentality, above all things, is the only thing that can make this better. be positive. i really hope things work out for you.</p>
<p>Man I would love to be you</p>
<p>Max,
I remember you from a few years ago. In regards to your situation, I think NSM and others gave excellent advice. Stay strong, man. You can do this!</p>
<p>OH MY GOD.
i can't believe most of the people who posted here lack this much empathy. seriously, guys, you don't envy someone just because he goes to penn and neglect everything else about him and just say "you're going to an ivy league college, how can you possibly have any problems in your life?" maybe it's because you guys have only focused on getting into an ivy league school/prestigious college and forgot about everything else, including money, family, personal relationships, etc.
legend, i totally understand you. in the freshman year of high school i had lots of problems in my family, so everything in my life seemed like going down-including, but not limited to, my gpa. you need to be calm, focus on one thing at once, and encourage yourself that you can do this. you're going to the best business school in the world, so a screw up on a year won't ruin your life, you still have three more years. adaptation is hard, but never, ever think of dropping out. everyone suffers--people may suffer from stuff more unfortunate then yours. think of this as an experience, possibly a rewarding one. hang on strong, and i'm sure that you can survive this.</p>