I hate this Ivy League bullcrap. I just can't do it.

<p>"While I agree with this, I seem to find these people everywhere. And then I cut myself off from them. I just hate that I find myself constantly pushing people away because I find out they're the type of person to try to make me feel like less of a person because of money."</p>

<p>I continue to suggest counseling. There's a good chance that your unresolved feelings over your father's death are causing you to look at your college experience in such a negative way.</p>

<p>What comes across in your posts is an anger/envy at students who are fortunate enough to get everything they need from their parents. What has not been expressed in your posts in this thread is any appreciation for the extraordinary opportunity U Penn has given you by admitting you and by giving you manageable (albeit with difficulty) financial aid even though from what you've posted before, they could have given you much less or possibly even nothing due to the fact that your widowed mother has some means, but refuses to give you any financial support for your education.</p>

<p>There's a chance that what the students are reacting to is your envy/anger at them as well as your lack of appreciation for being at U Penn. If you are, for instance, complaining about being at Penn., and saying that things would have been better if you'd gone to Penn State., your acquaintances -- who more than likely love Penn -- may react by stating that since you have such negative feelings toward Penn, you'd be better off at a less competitive institution.</p>

<p>I say all of this as a person who has been giving you support on CC for years. I also am someone who went to Harvard on scholarship and loans because my father, a dentist, said he had no money to help with my college.</p>

<p>I will forever be grateful that Harvard gave me some scholarship money and loans even though on paper I didn't deserve those things. I worked up to 30 hours a week during the school year, and up to 60 hours a week summers. Meanwhile, I had some college friends who were doing things like having European vacations during vacations and breaks.</p>

<p>As a small town girl who was in a big city, sophisticated college, I was often uncomfortable at Harvard because I was being exposed to situations and people who were far more sophisticated than I was. Sometimes, I even wished that I had gone to a less competitive college where, I thought, I would have been surrounded by more people like me (I've since learned that the low ranked college that I used to wish that I had gone to had lots of sophisticated, big city students who would have been far less accepting of me than were my classmates at Harvard).</p>

<p>However, I never resented having to work or take out loans to get to attend my dream school. The lessons that I learned at Harvard -- particularly from my more sophisticated peers -- have been lessons that I've used to my advantage for the rest of my life. Even when I was angriest at Harvard (and I was there at the height of the student movement, so I was similar to lots of students all over the country who were angry at their colleges), I still was very grateful for them giving me enough financial aid that I was able to choose to attend it.</p>

<p>So, with some reservation and to my surprise, I find myself agreeing with the students whom you say have said that you don't deserve to be at Penn. If you honestly can't appreciate being able to be at Wharton -- your dream school -- then Penn made a mistake by admitting you and by giving you enough financial aid to attend. If you do not think it has been worth it to work so hard on jobs to be at one of the best universities in the world, then it is too bad that Wharton didn't give your space to someone else. There are people on CC and all over the world who would have rejoiced to have to work jobs to have the opportunity that you have had, and who would have found ways of making friends and taking advantage of the various opportunities Wharton offers.</p>

<p>When I taught college at a 2nd/3rd tier public, I had students who were working up to 30 hours a week during the school year because their parents refused to help with their education. Some students graduated with up to $40 k in loans. Years after their graduation, some of those students are still keeping in touch with me because they are so grateful to have gotten a college education.</p>

<p>You have been given a gift, and what you choose to do with it says a great deal about your character, and how your character will affect the course of the rest of your life. If you can't shake your extreme negativity about your college experience, do get counseling because it's possible that depression/grief are causing you to see only the negative aspects of life instead of your being able to enjoy the fine opportunity that you have.</p>

<p>Dearest Legend,
I only wish I was as lucky as you to have even been given a shot at an Ivy League. I never went to private school and was never involved in any extra curriculars because, well, there simply was no money. I never even took the SATs or even had the chance to apply to a 4-year university. My childhood consisted of a single father trying to support his two kids, so basically we went to public school and got free lunch for being poor. I am the first generation Chinese-American in my family, so my father emphasized education strongly as he didn't want us to end up like him working at a blue-collar assembly line job. He was educated in his country, but in America he was unable to utilize his degree due to his language barrier. I can't imagine how hard life must be for you, but trust me when I say that I can relate. I am so sorry to hear your strife and I wish the world wasn't such a cruel and heartless place sometimes, but to sound cliche, that's just how the cookie crumbles. Please, please, please don't be afraid to take on a large student loan, it's just part of student life. Loans will relieve you from working so hard and give you more time to focus on your studies, which is the most important thing at the moment. It's hard to be grateful for things now because you are so pressed for time and money, but don't let that drag you down. Don't let those superficial preps make you feel bad. Wow, even at Ivy Leagues there are those stereotypical rich kids? That is sooo high school! Are you for real? There are actually students there who brag and put down others for not being as affluent as they? I guess high school really doesn't ever end, does it? Let those jocks live up to their stereotypes, but don't give them the pleasure of making you feel bad. So what if you feel left out or made fun of--you are in college. College! I agree with trying to make friends with people who are similar to you as it is your support group and friends that get you through college. On another note, I hate it when people think that if you don't go to the perfect college that your life is just crap. I was married at 18 and I am now 25. I supported my husband through college and now he is doing the same for me. He went to a technical university and we had no contacts or networks or anyone to help us along the way. He is now 25, too, and making nearly six figures in a successful managerial position. I am halfway done with my college goals and together we are breaking a pretty decent income. I went to community college and I also didn't (and still don't for that matter) have any networks or special hookups. Neither of our parents could afford to help with tuition so we depended on grants, loans, and working. It was so hard to work AND go to school AND do homework AND try to have a social life AND be married AND have to pay rent AND maintain good grades, but we did it! My point is: you don't have to come from a label to live the good life. The name or the prestige of a certain college doesn't mean everything. Your "smartness" or life-worth is not determined by which Ivy you went to or which in-crowd you acquainted yourself with. If you hate it there so bad, you should highly consider a break or another university. Perhaps you can transfer? Yes, life can be just as good and rewarding for us public school degenerates. You don't have to go to the perfect school or wear the perfect clothes or say the perfect things to be "perfect." Good luck.</p>

<p>Dear Moire,
Life isn't always about prestige. A label only contributes to stereotypes and social ladders. Believe it or not, you CAN get a quality education whether you go to an Ivy or a community college or a state U. If you think people are jealous for even suggesting someone should leave an Ivy (God forbid!), I think you should change your frame of thinking. People are not always jealous of others just because they come from a prestigious label, because going to an Ivy isn't always what everyone wants. I think it's comments like yours that make me glad I never went to private preparatory schools growing up. And please don't say that it's because I'm jealous.</p>

<p>You know, legendofmax, part of your education in college comes from experiences like this. As cliched as this might sound, sometimes failure and frustration teach you greater things than success does. Let this experience teach you humility and all the other things that everyone ought to learn. Imagine what a person you would be if all you have is a streak of successes, no failures - you would be over confident in your abilities and maybe even arrogant.</p>

<p>Sorry for bumping up an old thread.</p>

<p>Legend of max, I also go to Penn and my family is definitely less-than-affluent, so by Penn standards quite poor. Most of my friends don’t work and few ever seem concerned about money, so I see where you are coming from. When I first arrived campus I couldn’t believe how well people dressed and how elite/arrogant some were. Believe me I’ve felt jealous and angry at times, esp. when people who are more interested in partying than school get internships at daddy’s friend’s investment banks and when some girls spend my entire month’s budget on a single trip to king of prussia. It’s definitely hard and you deserve great credit for what you’ve done. </p>

<p>Some people won’t understand how lucky they are, and the only thing you can do is to stay away from them and don’t let it get to you. There are definitely frugal people are Penn too - some of my friends who come from quite well-off families are actually the thriftiest people I know. </p>

<p>Sadly, it’s difficult to fit in at such an elite Ivy, but there will be people who can understand you. I’ve also wondered at times if I had come to the wrong school, and feel bad that college would never be as great as the way I had hoped because of money, pedigree, connections and whatnot. But that will be true everywhere you go. Penn might not have been the perfect school for me, but I've accepted it and am glad and proud to be here. Try to make the best out of it and find people who appreciate what you do. And be damn proud of yourself. Ignore the haters. You’ve come a long way.</p>

<p>Cheers,</p>

<p>A fellow quaker</p>

<p>Northstarmom,
Why do you seem so utterly convinced that kids at public school flaunt their money? </p>

<p>I go to a public school in a traditionally poor state in the north and came from a pretty affluent public high school in the south. Kids in high school (some, but certainly not all) flaunted their money (or really their parents' money) like no tomorrow, buying expensive cars, expensive clothes, etc. Money was the modus operendi for mny of the students, and it was quite, quite obvious. At my state school, I can't think of one person who I've seen flaunt money in two full years. Almost everyone works (one girl works 40 hours a week to pay her own expenses as an out of state student), and it's extremely rare to see designer names. In fact until this year, I felt guilty because I was the only one of my friends or sorority sisters who didn't work (I'm a merit aid recipient and have a lot of unusual barriers when itcomes to getting "traditional" campus jobs). Many kids come from towns with double or triple digit populations as well. I know several kids from the town/small city who have paid rent to their families while living at home and attending school. I'm really confused about where you're getting this generalization, as it is the complete opposite of my experience!</p>

<p>legendofmax,</p>

<p>You've had a really tough go of it, and I admire your gumpton--I am constantly amazed by my sorority sister (mentioned above) who works 40+ hour weeks to pay for her own tuition, fees, sorority dues (including room and board, etc.--I doubt I could do it!</p>

<p>Are you taking out any/many loans? Or are you working so hard/much so that you can avoid taking out loans? What will your debt load at graduation look like? If it's low, maybe you could take out a little more in loans next year so that you would feel less immediate financial stress...? Seeing as you will be a senior (and on track to graduate in the Spring, I presume?), my gut instinct would be to stuck it out, get your door-opening Wharton degree and be done with it. And yes, use UPenn's counseling services--they probably have an APPIC psychology intern that needs to be overworked, anyway! :) (Humor--a dear friend did her APPIC pre-doctoral internship at a university counseling center and was worked to the bone. She love(s/d) what she does, though, and was more than happy to put in extra hours to help her clients).</p>

<p>Good luck and best wishes! Please let us know how it goes! :)</p>

<p>aworldapart: who - seriously - do you think you are? you're calling someone a "whiner" because they're put down constantly for having to actually WORK for what they want because their father died? SERIOUSLY? WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm currently a Wharton student with close to a 3.0, and it might be in danger of going under that threshold if I don't improve any

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Um, this isn't a terrible grade. It's actually quite respectable, and I think quite close to the average? In contrast, take a look at George Bush.</p>

<p>And if you're particularly resentful of being put down for lack of privilege, I suggest some way to pass along the concern to someone you know at the school press or something. An anonymous letter perhaps, or spur someone to write a concerned article...? </p>

<p>And to the many haters on this thread -- it's quite convenient for you all to accuse him of "whining" when you've never enjoyed anything but privilege.</p>