I have always wanted to know this about Asian and Indian students...

College Confidential Community
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In Asian countries like Japan and South Korea, the country is so small the competition is cut-throat. If you cant get into the top schools, you actually WILL NOT get a job.

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<p>UCLAri has already talked about Japan, so I'll talk about S Korea. If what you are saying is true, then how is S Korea able to boast of a 3.3% unemployment rate, which is actually lower than that of the US? In fact, S Korea actually has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world: actually lower than Japan, the US, Canada, Australia or most countries in Europe. Seems to me that most Koreans (who don't go to top schools) are nevertheless able to find jobs. </p>

<p>Korea</a>, South Unemployment rate - Economy
List</a> of countries by unemployment rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>

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Quote:
I'm not finding any Asian in America who's famous.

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<p>just random names come to mind. I could probably dig to really make a comprehensive list 100's long</p>

<p>Charles Wang-founder of Computer Associates
Jerry Yang---- " of Yahoo
Deepak Chopra
James Kim
Zubin Mehta
Dr.Sanjay Gupta
Bobby Tindal (governor elect, LA)
founders of Infospace, Hotmail, I-2, (can't remember their names)
Indra Nooyi--CEO of Pepsico</p>

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<p>Director Ang Lee. Newberry winning writers Linda Sue Park and Cynthia Kadohata. Lisa Yee. Bestselling novelist Amy Tan. Gish Jen. Jhumpa Lahiri. This only scratches the surface -- have you been to a bookstore lately?</p>

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<p>I believe there's a misconception. The competition in a lot of Asian countries is, indeed, cutthroat. However, a lot of it occurs over white collar jobs. To say that South Korea has a 3.3% unemployment rate and that, thus, the competition could not be that intense there is (most likely) wrong. I'm no expert, but I'll say that, through my experiences from visiting China, I've found the job opportunities there to be alarming. There are many top students who complete 4 years of undergrad only to find that there are no jobs available. So, then they decide to pursue grad school and come out with Ph.D.'s only to discover, once again, that they cannot find their first job. For the most part, people can survive though. That's why a lot of highly educated individuals take up jobs that, in the U.S., would not be considered feasible for an individual with a graduate degree. There are low unemployment rates only because people are forced to take lower paying jobs. That's why there is so much focus on education; without it, the competition will force you out of the game even before you start. </p>

<p>It has to do with population and culture for the most part. With a population that large, China can't afford an education like that of the U.S., where each individual is evaluated for his or her personal traits. There is a simple cut-off line for the college exam, similar to how they evaluate National Merit Semi-Finalists, and that determines how well you fair in the college admissions process. Thus, Asian parents who have survived and conquered this system and have come to the United States for new opportunities place a strong emphasis on high scores, because, for most, the numbers had gotten them to this point in the first place.</p>

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<p>RememberMe1990,</p>

<p>Then again, to assume that Japan = Korea = China is lunacy. They all have their own histories and cultures, no matter how much China influenced the region.</p>

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<p>Right. That's why I said that I'm no expert on this topic. My explanation is pure speculation. I don't know the statistics or conditions for those other countries, and I came to a conclusion based only on my personal experiences. I've heard that the Japanese and Chinese education systems are equally rigorous, however.</p>

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<p>They're rigorous, but the idea that you can't get a white collar job in Japan if you don't have a degree from Tokyo is just absurd.</p>

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<p>I think those super studious people in Japan are just led to believe that. If they can't get into Tokyo U, they have no chance of ever becoming someone.</p>

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<p>Yeah, but then you meet people who went to all sorts of schools living fairly comfortable lives. I mean, it's not like the average Japanese lives in squalor-- and the average Japanese definitely did not go to a major national university.</p>

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<p>
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To say that South Korea has a 3.3% unemployment rate and that, thus, the competition could not be that intense there is (most likely) wrong. I'm no expert, but I'll say that, through my experiences from visiting China, I've found the job opportunities there to be alarming. There are many top students who complete 4 years of undergrad only to find that there are no jobs available. So, then they decide to pursue grad school and come out with Ph.D.'s only to discover, once again, that they cannot find their first job. For the most part, people can survive though. That's why a lot of highly educated individuals take up jobs that, in the U.S., would not be considered feasible for an individual with a graduate degree. There are low unemployment rates only because people are forced to take lower paying jobs. That's why there is so much focus on education; without it, the competition will force you out of the game even before you start.

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<p>I never said anything about the competition for top jobs not being intense.</p>

<p>I am simply stating that the average S Korean and Japanese person who didn't go to a top university is still able to get some type of job. Will it be the most desirable of jobs? No, probably not. But you will still be able to get SOME type of job. And that type of job is probably going to pay relatively decently. After all, the average per-capita income in both S Korea and Japan is relatively high, and both countries have less inequality (read: lower Gini coefficients) than does the US. </p>

<p>Hence, the notion that "there are no jobs available" or that people "cannot find their first job" is simply untrue. There are indeed plenty of jobs available. As I pointed out, the unemployment rates in both S Korea and Japan are actually lower than that in the US. I think what you mean to say is that there are none of the BEST jobs available. Regular Koreans and Japanese can easily get SOME job, they just can't get the BEST jobs. But that's true in any country. In every country, there are more people who want the best jobs than there are available positions. After all, that's what it means for a job to be one of the best jobs. If nobody wanted them, then they wouldn't really be good jobs.</p>

<p>Look, in the US too, not everybody gets to have one of the best jobs. Not everybody is going to get an offer from Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, Google, Facebook, or companies like that. In fact, only a tiny percentage of Americans who want offers from these companies will actually get them. But that hardly means that "there are no jobs available" in the US, or even no available white-collar jobs in the US. Most white-collar jobs in S Korea and Japan are, like it is in the US, for average companies with average levels of responsibility that pay average salaries. Only a tiny percentage of the total jobs in S Korea and Japan are within the famous world-beating companies like Samsung or Toyota. The vast majority of Korean and Japanese companies are just average companies that nobody has ever heard of. Just like the vast majority of American companies are just average companies that nobody has ever heard of.</p>

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<p>Regarding the questions in the first post, I agree with the reasoning in the link madville provided, Chinese</a> Parents' Influence on Academic Performance.</p>

<p>I don’t believe that Asian genetics are superior to others. That is racism, plain and simple (c.f. white supremacy).</p>

<p>Asians who are successful in this country did it by working hard and deferring gratification. That is how almost all successful “young” Americans became able to live the Dream.</p>

<p>One of my numerous peeves regarding Asian stereotypes is “you just hired some guy to help you.” Even if this is true, so what? What’s your point? That Asians aren’t really “smart,” they just pay money? OK, then. Enjoy your sour grapes.</p>

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<p>I think the key is an "immigrant mentality." This is why Jews were so successful, and why Asian immigrants were successful. At my son's school, some of the most successful--and driven--students are immigrants from Africa.</p>

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<p>Model</a> minority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>

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<p>the model minority myth ****es me off to no end. </p>

<p>first there is this disconnect where asians aren't seen as "americans" (and really, those kids are probably citizens, so how would you define being "american"? citizenship, skin color, or maybe an affinity for sports? it's about as subtle as those motel signs advertising themselves as "american-owned."), and so stereotypes of the typical nerd variety abound unchecked. there have been countless refutations of that listed above, and yet the question of the myth's legitimacy still lingers. this nerd thing is as true as the gangster culture associated with other minorities--you can't define a whole group of people by such a one-sided rendering.</p>

<p>the other amusing thing is that indians are also asians...what would you categorize them as?</p>

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<p>Indians may be Asians, but their culture is much different from that of China, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, etc. China spread its influence to the latter 3 countries and so they all share some basic characteristics, in addition to the fact that they look more similar to one another than to Indians. I'm sure that people would address "Asians" as Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, but frankly, unless you've met someone from each of these regions, it's difficult to tell them apart. Most people know that the person is obviously from a specific region of Asia, but they won't be able to discern which region until the person tells them. So, until that time, it's simply easier to refer to them as "Asian". For example, I'm Ghanaian American, but people just say I'm African. There are few non-African people who can determine which features are Ghanaian, which are Nigerian, etc. that it is simply easier to group everyone together. I don't know anyone who minds this.</p>

<p>The "model minority myth" you speak of isn't really a myth. Yes, not every Asian is 'smart'. But most Asian immigrants (read: parents) have a very narrow view of what they need to do to suceed. In their minds, they've been taught that HYP is the best, a 2400 is the best, doctors/lawyers are the best. They've had to fight to get what they've wanted in life, and they only want the best for their children, and will do whatever it takes to get that for them. This is actually true of most immigrants, except it's more obvious in Asians because they have a better education system than most other countries, so they will know more about how education works than other immigrants. Most immigrants fought their butts off to get here and improve their lives, and they simply don't want their children to let their effort go to waste.</p>

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This is actually true of most immigrants, except it's more obvious in Asians because they have a better education system than most other countries,

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<p>I've heard this said several times before, yet I have seen little hard evidence that this is so, and in fact, much evidence to the contrary. Specifically, I am not aware of any reason to believe that the educational systems in, say, mainland China or Vietnam are particularly impressive when compared to the educational system in the US. China has only the 81st and Vietnam has only the 85th highest literacy rates of the 176 nations in the world that were surveyed, which is, frankly, rather mediocre (although, granted, it's still much better than the literacy rate in India). The average adult in mainland China has only 6.4 years of schooling, and the average adult in Vietnam has only 6.2 years of schooling, which basically amounts to only an elementary school education. The US educational system is far far better in all of these respects. Let's face it. There are a LOT of illiterate or otherwise poorly educated Chinese and Vietnamese. </p>

<p>List</a> of countries by literacy rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<a href="http://www.unesco.or.id/apgest/pdf/vietnam/vietnam.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.unesco.or.id/apgest/pdf/vietnam/vietnam.pdf&lt;/a>
NationMaster</a> - Average years of schooling of adults (most recent) by country</p>

<p>Frankly, the immigrants who come from places such as Canada, Australia, and Western Europe can be said to have come from countries that have educational systems that are far far better than those who come from China or Vietnam (or even S Korea or Taiwan). Think of it this way. The average Canadian is far better educated than the average Chinese. Yet you don't see Canadian immigrants dominating American universities the way that you see Chinese immigrants doing so (with the special exception of Chinese-Canadians) .</p>

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<p>Hmm Chronicidal is very articulate. And I agree. Asian student excelling in the areas aforementioned is a social phenomenon based on a different value system. Asian parents tend to emphasize the importance of education more strictly than others. It is partly due to the Asians trying to compete in the American world. However, some asians are extremely gifted in areas of sports. Actually I think Asians are very good at Tennis, figure skating, track. Some of the best players I've seen in soccer and basketball are asians. However my conclusion is that it all stems from the initiatives one takes as a parent. There is no genetic correlation between ethnicity and intelligence. It is all about how early and thoroughly one develops his/her child.</p>

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<p>I am looking at MacLean Magazine's annual Canadian universities issue and this article caught my attention:</p>

<p>State</a> of unreadiness | McLean's.ca - Education - Postsecondary</p>

<p>Here are some excerpts:</p>

<p>"In September 2005, 25 students from Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, B.C., and 25 students from Zhejiang University in China began the firest year of a new joint computer science degree program between the two universities....</p>

<p>But once the program started, it quickly became apparent that the Canadians in it were struggling. The First World students were simply not as educationally advanced as their developing world colleagues. The Chinese students were much more comfortable in English than the Simon Fraser students were in Chinese—perhaps not a surprise given that English is the global language. But the real shocker was in math and science. The Canadians were way behind......</p>

<p>The original program required students to take an intense first year of language instruction—Mandarin for SFU students, English for Zhejiang students—at their home university. In second and third year, both cohorts would study a variety of courses including math, science, and second language at Zhejiang in China. This would be followed by a fourth and fifth year at SFU. ...</p>

<p>As a result of these disparities, the Simon Fraser program has been changed. Canadian students will still do a language year in Mandarin at SFU, as well as courses in math and science to upgrade their skills. For the Canadians, this is a five-year degree. But for the Chinese students, the first year of the program has been dropped. For them, it’s now a four-year degree."</p>

<p>According to international studies we are supposed to have fine secondary school systems and we are still not competitive. I am surprised that the quality of students can vary this much internationally.</p>

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<p>My Asian parents encouraged me to accomplish, but not to the brink of death (except I was taught to read at 4, multiplication at 5, but everyone I knew was doing the same thing). What made me want to work harder was racism. I remember being a young kid just arrived at the US and had to confront some being nasty looks, attitude, and downright hatred. After being called chink a few times a day, you want to accomplish something big and shove an academic middle-finger up that white-trash...nose. Thanks to that Neo-Nazis, now I'm going to a good college for free</p>

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<p>A little different perspective here.
Look at the names of the semifinalists and finalists of math, physics and othere science olympiads for the past few years. A lot of russian, polish, bulgarian sounding names. Here is that "brain drain" that tokenadult have mentioned in one of the first posts. And the number of immigrants from Eastern Europe can't even compare to the number of immigrants from Asia
There was an article about it on AoPS site, if only I could find it.</p>