I have always wanted to know this about Asian and Indian students...

<p>SOME EMPIRICAL DATA:</p>

<p>China has had so many perfect scores on the IMO (international math olympiad, currently #1) that if it just didnt partake in the next IMO and receive a score of 0, and the second place country (the US) could score all perfect scores and China would still retain its overall lead.</p>

<p>The International Chemistry Olympiad:
China not only had all Gold medals, it held 3 of the top 5 spots (including #1,#2,#5) The united states had 0 ZERO gold medals
<a href="http://www.icho39.chem.msu.ru/downloads/Olympiad_results.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.icho39.chem.msu.ru/downloads/Olympiad_results.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Similar results for the International Physics and Biology Olympiad.
Anyone seeing a trend here?</p>

<p>EDIT:
By the way...
4/6 2007 United States Olympic Math team is asian (3 chinese, 1 indian, 1 caucasian)
4/5 2007 United States Olympic Physics team is asian (3 chinese, 1 indian, 1 caucasian)
2/4 2007 United States Olympic Chemistry team is asian (1 korean, 1 chinese)
3/4 2007 United States Olympic Biology team is chinese </p>

<p>... now consider that asians in the United States make up <5% of the population...</p>

<p>^I think it's best to measure the number of Nobel winners and how many original patents that were originated from people with such country, etc..</p>

<p>truazn894532,</p>

<p>If the US also had a rigid quantitative-focused educational system, it might do well too.</p>

<p>Your data proves nothing.</p>

<p>Found it!</p>

<p>Why</a> Math Geeks (Especially Immigrant Geeks) Rule -Britannica Blog</p>

<p>From AoPS site.</p>

<p>Thanks, Kelowna, great link.</p>

<p>Just a curious fact: 5 years ago went to Duke University for the Grand Award ceremony for TIP. Those were the students that scored above 650 in at least one part of the SAT in 7th grade. The program had the names of all the students. Most common last name (after I think Johnson): Patel.</p>

<p>One thing that skews Talent Search results is that Indian (especially) and Chinese parents are MUCH more likely to have their children do specific test prep for those tests than American-born European-American parents, who mostly just have their children show up and rely on "natural" (develop through the casual home enviroment) talent. I think one has to be smart at any age to score well on those tests, but I think the difference between one test-taker and another at Talent Search age in reaching the regional award cut-offs may consist of familiarity with the specific test in a way that may or may not generalize to other academic tasks. </p>

<p>Just my humble opinion as a parent of a bicultural regional Talent Search award winner.</p>

<p>UCLAri sure I agree with you.</p>

<p>But then how do you explain the vastly disporportionate amount of Chinese on the United States Olympic academic teams? These ppl are US Citizens.</p>

<p>This was a funny read :) probably because I'm Korean. I've always wondered if Asians tend to do better in school because they cheat more or they're better at it. It seems to me that all the white kids don't care enough to crowd the lunch table and discuss what is on what test. As for SATs Asians are just freaky good at it or they've taken years of SAT prep. </p>

<p>This topic here is a common discussion I have with my parents. My parents think the generic Asian kids will succeed more in high school and maybe even in college but in the real world, they can't compete. Unless they are a natural social networker, the typical Asians went through education without really learning how to network. Sure Asians will have great numbers but with that alone can you secure yourself a job?</p>

<p>Who knows. I know a ton of Asians, myself included, who love to play football, basketball, or even computer games. I know some that are even delusional and believe that they are living "The Fast and the Furious" life, even when I tell them their automatic Honda can not become faster with a body kit and spoiler. But I know a lot of other Asians who I only see in my Calculus class who become pale at the sight of a B+. There are all different kinds of Asians and not all of us score 2400s. Because most of us score 2300s. Just kidding. :)</p>

<p>This thread is full of very interesting thoughts, views, and opinions.
I am korean.</p>

<p>To the OP, already stated in previous posts, the asian parents today in the U.S are mainly 1st generation, brightest pioneers with one thing to retain, internal drive. My father has taught me the significance of it. The immigrants yearn for a higher level education, which is the top factor in our society. With this in mind, they set substantial standards in the academic sense. Basketball was my passion, and gradually diminishes, since schoolwork has interjected my time. I personally love sports, and in the end, education is what matters.
But you see, it really doesn't matter if an asian kid is in a higher level math class than you, why? Simply because you will EVENTUALLY be in it too.</p>

<p>To comment on Sakky's post of 11/27: It boils down to the economics of numbers. Their top is larger. Assuming that in India and China there's an elite educational establishment light years removed from the average to which maybe 5% of the population has access, that translates into a pool of 55 and 60 million people, respectively, well prepared academically. This is the pool we are drawing or draining from. The US might not be the most popular country in the world at this time and everybody seems to be picking on us, but for the ambitious, hard-working, and smart, it is still the promised land.</p>

<p>
[quote]
UCLAri sure I agree with you.</p>

<p>But then how do you explain the vastly disporportionate amount of Chinese on the United States Olympic academic teams? These ppl are US Citizens.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Same reason that Jewish-Americans did so well for so long-- culture. Asian families don't come to America and raise their children without at least some of the influences of home.</p>

<p>When I was playing video games, my significant other was drilling SAT vocab words... in 7th grade.</p>

<p>I didn't read everything but I'm sure what I'm about to say has already been stated. The competition for job market in Asia is far, far greater than the U.S. In fact, being third world countries; finding an above average salary job is very difficult and competitive . Educational system is far more difficult and competitive; getting into a decent college is in itself very painful at places like china/india. Getting into a top school there is next to impossible (IIT india / Tokyo University....these place are notorious).</p>

<p>Compare this to the US where the educational system is 1)more organized 2)more available and accessible then most countries 3) paid for almost completely by the government for public schooling 4) private college offer significant need-based financial aid5) top 100 colleges in america have fairly good job placement rates.</p>

<p>In America, a hard-working student can become a millionaire simply by utilizing the educational system and going to a good college and getting his foot into a wonderful career path (medicine / law/ business/ whatever). </p>

<p>Children need to realize that educational REALLY is the KEY to SUCCESS. I think that asian parents drive this ideology into their children on average than do non-asian.</p>

<p>Of course, when you've imigrated here from a third world country and have been exposed to so much competition - I guess you realize the value of opportunity and make sure you're kids make use of it.</p>

<p>kotchian123,</p>

<p>Japan and South Korea are third-world countries... how?</p>

<p>Especially Japan. How on EARTH is Japan a third-world country???</p>

<p>
[quote]
Compare this to the US where the educational system is 1)more organized 2)more available and accessible then most countries 3) paid for almost completely by the government for public schooling 4) private college offer significant need-based financial aid5) top 100 colleges in america have fairly good job placement rates.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Would could easily argue that 1) Japan and South Korea have better organized educational systems than the US, 2) it's as, if not more, accessible than the US, 3) same thing in Japan and South Korea.</p>

<p>I don't think those are the two countries where most migrants come from, so the generalization might work for many of the other Asian countries.</p>

<p>But then we have an interesting problem.</p>

<p>Typically, Southeast Asian immigrants don't do nearly as well as Japanese, Korean, and Chinese immigrants.</p>

<p>Wow, everytime the "Asian" subject is posted, everyone gets their 2cents in. I am going to join the party.</p>

<p>Most Asian (especially Chinese and Japanese) children you encountered in school these days are at least first or second generation Americans. In California, they may even be third or fourth generation. Many of these children can barely speak their parent's language, let alone reading or writing it. Their thinking and attitude are not like that of their parent/ancestors although I cannot explain why many of them still retain the work ethics and drive. Maybe it is the environment that they grew up in. I think unfair to categorize them to be "Chinese/Japanese/Indian" and not American as said by the author of this post just because they look different outside. With this type of thinking, Asian will always face subtle discrimination and seen as outsiders not matter how many generations have passed. Chinese (and Japanese) have been in the US since the 1800's or earlier and now in the 2007, these children are still viewed as "Chinese/..." and not as "Americans". The stereotypical Asian kids that I see described here are either the first generation born to manual labor parents or themselves are the 1.5 generation children. Asians believed that a good education is the only way to move up the social economic ladder. Usually Engineering and technical fields are least expensive and quickest and because it offers more job opportunities at the BS level and are less discriminative. The impression is that other fields are difficult for Asian to break into and make a living. Engineering (especially) and science courses are difficult and require dedication, drive and hard work. To succeed and to finished, there are no short cuts. With more opportunities in other fields, this is changing. There is a light at the end of the tunnel (hopefully it is not a train). Notice the Asian faces in politics, entertainment, TV news reporters etc. these days? BTW - Heard of Princeton Review, Huntington, Sylvan, etc. just to name a few? Even the t local private preschool/childcare places are offering "enrichment programs" for your child. Most of the attendees I see in those places are not Asian faces.</p>

<p>The ethics and drive are instilled by either a guilt factor for what the parents had to give up in order to ensure said western education, or a general ambition to surpass the economic stature endured by the parents. My values are not from my parents, but from myself -- sure, some of the desired qualities are there, but a lot aren't. I grew up flying between China and Japan until age 7; my mother graduated from a 2-year community college in China, my father has a PhD in Nuclear Physics. He has taught himself Software engineering and now works as a software engineer.</p>

<p>As a first generation immigrant, I honestly don't view myself differently from Americans, Canadians, and whatnot. Perhaps it is overexposure to so many cultures -- I don't know. What I can tell you is that the reason my parents put such a stress on mathematics was that it was the one subject I didn't have to overcome a language barrier for. I could learn to be confident in myself from early on by excelling in math, so that others could not ignore me. I tested into third grade math while in first grade (aka, began learning multiplication), and basically stayed ahead at least two years in Math until High School, when I actually learned along with the teacher. It really helped to have that crutch that I wasn't out of my league as I was in ESL and all that jazz.</p>

<p>I personally don't have an issue with public speaking. I love doing forensics, and Model UN, and other activities of that nature, so I suggest that part be based on a purely individual basis. I mean, the only thing I can factor in is that while my friends were out playing, I was shut in the house doing home-schooled math in addition to real schoolwork. I guess there's a bit of a lack of social interaction?</p>