<p>Friends are telling me that if your a freshmen at USMA, its a nightmare because of all the hazing. Any students now can verify/confirm this? Or is it something that stays within the walls of West Point and not publically disclosed..</p>
<p>The Fourth Class System at West Point serves the academy well in helping to transition young men and women into a highly rigorous and disciplined lifestyle. "Hazing" in 2006 is not what it was in 1936, and certainly not what it was in 1876. The end result of Plebe year can be seen easily in a comparison of what the average West Point Plebe can do in a 24 hour day compared to a Harvard Freshman.</p>
<p>Hello Shogun:</p>
<p>I know what you mean when you say the "hazing" in 2006 is not what it was in 1936 or 1876, but could you elaborate a bit more for those young men and woman who are considering applying to West Point and to whom this "hazing" thing might not (or might) be familiar?</p>
<p>And while on the topic of what's different at West Point in comparison to a "civilian" college, my wife has told me by phone (she's still near West Point visting family) that several of the new cadets have already dropped out due to broken bone injuries. I haven't got any more details than that, but perhaps somebody who is a member of the plebe-net network could elaborate.</p>
<p>What a West Point Plebe in 2006 calls "hazing" is much different than what it was at the academy and at other colleges in the past. In the 19th as well as much of the 20th century hazing was often nothing more than physical abuse of a new cadet or freshman. Much of it served no purpose other than for the older cadets to "meet out" that which they were subjected to when they were Plebes. The thought being it would weed out those who didn't belong, and make those who "survived" tougher. Plebes were often forced to eat large quantities of vile substances, participate in fist fights ( I believe toward the latter part of the 19th century a plebe died after one of those fights which brought national attention to the hazing issue), stand for long periods of time in painful positions, etc. That particular brand of hazing is officially outlawed at West point. There have been a number of books written about the West Point Hazing scandal of 1898-1901.<br>
A plebe today may refer to being hassled by an upper classman by having to recite "knowledge" on the spot or having to drop for pushups as "hazing" but in the traditional sense it is not. Even the number of pushups that a cadet can be forced to do in a day or at one time is regulated. I am sure that one of the cadets or grads on this forum can speak to the issue more precisely.</p>
<p>WPSON2010, I am sure there will be new cadets that leave during Beast for a multitude of reasons. I think the number that left last year was around 60 or so. Some of them will be because of injury and others because "this was not what they expected." I remember our daughter mentioning there being a brief by the supe last summer updating the new cadets on how many of their number had left. It's a tough summer, but the vast majority do make it.</p>
<p>Reportedly one new cadet who broke his foot kept it secret for two days because he didn't want to be sent home. His injury was only discovered when he could no longer put on his combat boot over his broken foot. I sure hope that cadet is back at West Point next year.</p>
<p>Shogun is right, as a young "old grad" (Class of '02) and the sister to a New Cadet brother (we got the first phone call tonight!), "hazing" as the term is still used at USMA is not the hazing of old where plebes must do physically harmful things. I was considered a "haze" as an upperclassman because I would stop plebes for certain infractions, or at formation make sure they knew the "knowledge" they were supposed to, etc. But, I never did it yelling, and they were for things that they are supposed to know and do, so in reality, enforcing standards. Now, during Beast it may be more vocal and involve push-ups, etc, but cadre are given rules by which they abide, and they are supervised by commissioned and non-commissioned officers to make sure things are done tough, to standard, but within Army regulations.<br>
Now, new cadets, plebes, and all classes really, are put under varying levels of stressful situations---be it memorizing tons of information, learning strict situational awareness to what seems to be even the smallest, inconsequential detail, to having to lead ones own classmates and peers. There were times, as a cadet, I thought some of those things silly and of maybe not of large consequence. But, since graduating, and having the honor to be a Platoon Leader of a Combat Military Police platoon in OIF in '04-'05, I saw it pay off. I saw it pay off in our pre-deployment training, and throughout various combat actions within the deployment. So, that's a long way to say, what USMA cadets refer to as hazing, is much more just "be hassled," "standards enforcement," and putting cadets under varying levels of stress to train them to react to a variety of situations all happening at once. Learning to properly react under stressors and lead others under stress is one of the most valuable lessons USMA could teach to future combat leaders.</p>