<p>"If you can't distinguish between a gut reaction (hitting someone after you've had a ball thrown at you) and going to get a gun and shooting than you need a class in basic social science and/or psychology."</p>
<p>I have a doctorate in psychology, and when I worked as a clinician worked with some people who'd gotten into trouble due to their violent behavior. Your own background in psychology is....?</p>
<p>" Yep, lol. Our school is really stupid with the no fighting thing too. If someone punches you first, clearly starting it, and you punch back you'll both be suspended. I'm glad that I'm leaving in June. "</p>
<p>This is not a ridiculous policy. Would you rather hold the value of an eye for an eye? You obviously have some anger management issues and you ought to have better sense of that. </p>
<p>As for your college, let's say if you are thoroughly rueful, you could probably pen something to your college and send a carbon copy to your high school counselor.</p>
<p>Wow, a doctorate in psychology and you are baiting a high school student?!
It does not take a Ph.D. to make the distiction that I raised......there is a clear difference between the seminal event in this post and the violence to which you compared it....</p>
<p>"It does not take a Ph.D. to make the distiction that I raised......there is a clear difference between the seminal event in this post and the violence to which you compared it...."</p>
<p>Someone who thinks it's OK and even expected to punch someone after being hit in the face by a dodgeball l has the same kind of anger problems and lack of judgment and inhibition as does someone who reaches for a gun after being dissed.</p>
<p>A gun simply wasn't available on the dodgeball field. </p>
<p>Probably in the situations that I posted about, the teens who ended up killing people had only wanted to scare them or otherwise prop up what the teens viewed as their own damaged image.</p>
<p>And it's interesting that you call what I have posted "baiting," which is a term that refers to trying to provoke someone, and often indicates deliberately trying to provoke someone to fight. I don't think that courteously disagreeing with someone is the same as baiting someone, but people with anger problems can view things that way, and can also use such "baiting" as excuses for resorting to violence.</p>
<p>You've got to be joking......"a gun simply wasn't available on the dodgeball field," give me a break. </p>
<p>Enough with the adhominum attacks.....</p>
<p>NSM- The kid threw a punch after getting HURT and having his glasses knocked off of his face. It happens and it happens frequently. It's a shame the boy's nose was broken, just as it was unfortunate that my son's "victim" lost some teeth. It doesn't make this kid bad college material or ready for reform school. Myimpression, from your posts, is that you have a very idealistic view of how everyone should conduct themselves. If you have been around kind, controlled and passive people your whole life, how wonderful for you! You might be shocked at how often boys fight! I'm talking prep school boys, Ivy league boys, all KINDS of boys. (girls, too, in fact) Add alcohol to the mix and it increases. My son's prep school roommate had to go to the ER fo stitches in his face (minor) after a fight on an athletic recruiting visit!<br>
Just because it doesn't fit your view of the perfectly behaved young man, no need to attack this kid. He reacted. End of story.</p>
<p>Hurt> not really, his EGO was hurt....and I totally disagree that this isn't a big deal...losing your temper and lashing out violently is not something to be taken lightly, especially with the attitude of "he had it coming" </p>
<p>Not end of story...the OP still feels he was right to break the kids nose....</p>
<p>What happens next time someone "embarrasses" the OP?</p>
<p>So he was hurt by a friend who threw a ball at him...if you hit your friends because you don't want to look like a wuss...where do you draw the line?</p>
<p>And gee, I don't have any problem with hoping that people don't shove and punch each other for getting "hurt"...</p>
<p>So just because lots of kids fight, we should just go- ah its normal...go ahead?</p>
<p>i think not...I would expect decent behavior </p>
<p>I was in a school yard, I did yard duty for YEARS, with all ages of middle school kids.</p>
<p>There was pushing and the like, and balls being thrown to hurt and diss someone...should I have just said, sure, smack him back, he deserves it? I taught the kids to speak up, yell, whatever else, but Not to strike back...cause you know what...the second hitter is the one who always gets busted...so don't be stupid...</p>
<p>You teach that you don't react with violence...that is not idealistic at all, that is wanted to live in civilized society...civilzed society...that means expecting the people not not walk around hitting each other because they don't want to look bad</p>
<p>A reaction? well, the attitude of the OP is that his friend deserved to get punched...no remorse...he felt bad when he saw blood...and he THINKS he controlled how hard he hit him, thus claiming he had some self control.....he had to go after the kid in order to hit him...he had to get up and walk to hit him...he was in no danger...he just lost his temper and said he didn't want to look bad to others....</p>
<p>I for one would expect more from my kid...IF the op actually said that he shouldn't have hit the friend, that it was stupid to break the nose, then maybe there would be some hope, but the OP still says that the friend deserved it</p>
<p>Don't care if kids fight all the time, don't care, doens't make it somehow okay...what is so different from this kid hitting someone for embarrassing and "hurting" him, then another kid knifing someone for the same reason...same motive, right?</p>
<p>I think if you, at age 18, (if he did that in a bar, the cops would have been called, and the OP was lucky they weren't, If I saw that happen, I would have called 9-11), and he could have been hauled off to jail.</p>
<p>The OP committed assualt- battery....he wasn't attacked, a ball hit is face...and the OP isn't even sure if it was on purpose or not</p>
<p>Interesting discussion.</p>
<p>This is really a discussion of the practical implementation of two competing social principles:</p>
<ul>
<li>An Eye for an Eye</li>
<li>Turn the other cheek</li>
</ul>
<p>It is notable that the second principle was revolutionary at the time (approx. 29 A.D., or CE for religiophobes). It was revolutionary because it runs counter to our genetic programming.</p>
<p>Four year old kids do not learn to beat each other up over a toy. there is no judgement or forethought involved... these are genetic, instinctual reactions as programmed into us as the ability to acquire language.</p>
<p>The issue here is whether an 18 year old boy (gender matters here... again, millions of years of genetic selection for strength and aggressiveness -- traits prized in time of war, defending the clan, etc.) should be penalized by his future college for not yet learning to turn the other cheek (an anti-genetic, learned behavior).</p>
<p>I say turn the other cheek. Many times I have not been successful trying to implement this behavior. It is not easy to go against one's genetic coding, especially in quick reaction settings. Gandhi and MLK worked for decades to try to teach this behavior, sometimes successfully, sometimes not.</p>
<p>The OP seems to have failed as well in the heat of instantaneous reaction. I hope at least he sees that Turn the other Cheek is a better way to go.</p>
<p>I love genetics and nature and all that...but some use that as an axcuse- boys will be boys- hogwash</p>
<p>I absolutely agree that learning to NOT react with like-violence is the preferred way to go. It is a life-long process. Thank you, Dunnin.</p>
<p>I just get irritated on many of these threads at the holier-than-thou attitudes and lack of recognition of human flaws. It's not just this thread. It's the horror over underaged drinking, "hook-ups" etc. </p>
<p>It's taken me a lot of years to learn some lessons, and I am a successful professional. I have made a LOT of mistakes along the way- in my parenting, my personal life and my reactions to others. I try not to expect to much of young people. They are still learning, too, and it is a tough society today in which to learn lessons.</p>
<p>Most often getting hit in the face hard with a <em>rubber</em> dodgeball does more damage and is worse than a punch in the face (at least with people who really don't know how to fight that well, which is in general the case with your average high school student.) I think that NSM's argument comparing this reaction to getting a gun is inappropriate, PhD in psychology or not. </p>
<p>That said, once you get in high school, you have a lot to lose personally by getting in a fight. If it was junior high (and you aren't dealing with some gangbanger or something), I'd say go for it. But in high school and beyond, it can really hurt your professional career. Fighting in college is probably the thing they are the least sympathetic about. </p>
<p>However, I have to say that I am sympathetic to the OP. Getting hit in the head purposely by some idiot is probably the least tolerable of all physical assaults. You're supposed to go to school to learn, not to lose brain cells by having some moron purposely nail you in the head with a dodgeball.</p>
<p>So, you react by punching them and getting suspended?</p>
<p>ANd I agree with NSMs argument...the same mentally and thought process that causes someone to pull a gun is the same the the OP used to swing his fist, totally on purpose and it sent someone to the hospital</p>
<p>And the OP broke the kids nose, and said he could have hit him much harder, and was aiming for the cheak, and it wasn't an upward swipe...seems the OP HAS a clue about fighting</p>
<p>THis was his "friend"- and the friend was fooling around...doesn't seem to be malicious, even the OP admits that, however the OP reacted by violently assualting another person because he didn't want to look weak</p>
<p>A weak person has little self control, and you know, you start fighting in middle school or younger, and you don't learn other ways of dealing with things</p>
<p>My H went to a luncheon, and two grown men got into a fight, these guys were in their 50s and throwing punches, and who wants to bet that they did the same thing in middle school, because they never learned to not let people "get to them" and never learned when to walk away and not react</p>
<p>Strength is not shown by beating another person up- strength and power comes from being confident enough to go, you are a jerk and not worth me going to jail for or getting suspended, my self esteem is good enough that I don't worry what others might think of me because YOU are a jerk</p>
<p>I just wish the school had called the cops...At a local park some "friends" got into a tiff, ended up with one chasing the other down the street with a broken bottle...how did it start? One guy was horseplaying and pushed his friend down. How did it end, the "victim" was arrested...why? Because he chased his friend and cut him with the bottle, all because some horse play was taken the wrong way....and I am glad the cops hauled his behind off to jail...</p>
<p>^^thanks for the lecture. FYI, I personally have always avoided fights because I thought I would end up in trouble. The stakes were always too high for me. </p>
<p>Still, I have little tolerance for people who physically bully others and assault them unprovoked, and I sympathize with someone who responds. I consider intentionally nailing someone in the head with a dodgeball as equivalent to punching someone in the head. And just because it is the same thought process, it's kind of a ridiculous slippery slope argument to compare getting a gun and throwing a punch. </p>
<p>I have to say that I agree with others that the women here don't seem to get it.</p>
<p>I get it! (I'm a woman/mom)</p>
<p>Now wouldn't THAT be a worthwhile use of our police resources- to come to a high school for an incident like this. YooHoo!! Return to this world.....</p>
<p>I never said this guy was my friend. He's just a good kid I know who happened to make a mistake. However, I also made a mistake by not calming down first. But I wasn't thinking - I just simply reacted. I was in a moment of intense anger. Just so you know, he and I mess around with each other sometimes, but this time, he went too far. I really wish that I had not broken his nose. I became absolutely terrified when I saw blood gushing out of his nose. Then I escorted him to the nurse while he kept saying that it was all right. </p>
<p>I really believe that my punch is somewhat justifiable. And I said it before but I'll say it again: if I let that hit go without doing any sort of revenge on him, I would never be able to respect myself. That was NOT about my image. Some of you just had to be in my shoes to know how I felt at that time and know why I reacted like that. </p>
<p>Just so you guys know, the guy was freaking smiling when he threw it at me, and he continued to smile right afterwards. I honestly believe that I never would have punched him if he stopped smiling and said that he was sorry. I should have mentioned this earlier.</p>
<p>Oh, and the hit to my face was THE worst hit I have ever gotten in the face. I'm not lying, it really hurt.</p>
<p>What's important is that you speak with your counselor ASAP about this incident and how if they'll report it to the colleges you've already applied to and those that you've been admitted at. Also, if they will report it, but do not know which schools you've applied to or been admitted to, I would consult a professional about whether or not to release the information to your school.</p>
<p>I would go right now, but I'm not allowed at the school even after school hours. I have to wait a week until I find out what has to be done. Gah, I still can't believe I'm in this much trouble for a single, weak, left-handed punch. And I can't go on the senior trip to Disneyworld because I was suspended, which is a bummer.</p>
<p>I agree with FredFredBurger that talking with your GC is a good idea. Perhaps you can email? Early in this thread Northstarmom offered some good advice (before she was chided for having--OH NO!--an idealistic view):</p>
<p>"If your school has to tell the colleges, and if the guy who threw the ball really is "cool" with you, then perhaps he'd write a letter of support to accompany the letter of explanation and remorse that you should send the college (if they will hear about your suspension)."</p>
<p>Can you email your GC? And if this whole episode turns out with no consequence except the suspension I think 5 excused absences isn't too bad of a trade for the senior trip.</p>
<p>strawberrymayo: can't you call your GC on the phone?</p>