<p>I agree that this is terrible but the active members are the ones that spoke up. Not allowing them to continue because of the alumni seems unfair. It is absolutely beyond me that grown women in 2013 act this way!!!</p>
<p>have been reading the 2 threads and holding back</p>
<p>i am a resident of this state, (not native) but have been here 30 years…is there racism here…yes just as there is ANYWHERE. will you find it if you look, yes. this is a state that when i was a teenager was still segregated. but has this state ( and its citizens) changed…DRASTICALLY. are there some that didnt welcome the change, most assuredly. But that doesnt make the state of alabama and its residents backward, hateful or as a whole racist. </p>
<p>as to the sorority thing…its NOT new… those looking at ua as a school could have found this information easily… the reputation of sororities and frats at ua is well known…the history of the machine is well known. if you didnt find it while searching schools, i’m sorry that this comes as a slap in the face now, but it was there for you to find and make a decision about. my son did, and it was a reason he chose not to attend (there were others so it wasnt solely this). Tradition as a reason, does not excuse it, it shouldnt be allowed to happen, it should change. however, the anger now, will be calmed by administration (you obviously know how they will answer your concerns…you cant honestly expect them to say… go away, that is the way it is)… The power to change this is with the students, and somehow loosening the grip of the alumni…but the school relies on its alumni to help support those scholarships etc, that lured you to look in the first place.</p>
<p>random thoughts but a lot of ramifications to this whole issue.</p>
<p>Per the CW’s FB page:</p>
<p>“The Final Barrier” writers Abbey Crain and Matt Ford being interviewed by @CNN.</p>
<p>It will air during Erin Burnett’s show tomorrow, Friday, at 6 p.m. CST.</p>
<p>CNN, USA Today, Huffpost, twitter all writing about it today. This will not end until something real is done.</p>
<p>I stand by what I have said in the past. There is a natural sorting for the most part, that leads most students to WANT to rush Greek chapters most closely associated with their race. And UA does have a very proud and large set of traditionally AA Greek chapters. </p>
<p>HOWEVER, what is so egregious about this incident, is that the vast majority of two sororities WANTED this young AA lady to join their sorority, but alumnae and an adviser nixed it. UNACCEPTABLE!!! Private organizations do have the right to decide the makeup of their “clubs,” but they should not be subsidized by the UA if they have made race, rather than achievement, and other meaningful things, the most important exclusionary criteria.</p>
<p>^^^ A BIG Roll Tide to that ATL. My D is proud to be one of the 70% of the REST of the student body at UA that are not packed like lemmings into a few single color Greek containers. Let the change begin!</p>
<p>*I stand by what I have said in the past. There is a natural sorting for the most part, that leads most students to WANT to rush Greek chapters most closely associated with their race. And UA does have a very proud and large set of traditionally AA Greek chapters. </p>
<p>HOWEVER, what is so egregious about this incident, is that the vast majority of two sororities WANTED this young AA lady to join their sorority, but alumnae and an adviser nixed it. UNACCEPTABLE!!! Private organizations do have the right to decide the makeup of their “clubs,” but they should not be subsidized by the UA if they have made race, rather than achievement, and other meaningful things, the most important exclusionary criteria.*</p>
<p>Completely agree with both sentiments. Self-selection is what typically goes on. But, when a qualified young lady is nixed because some crazy-thinking alums play power games, that has got to stop.</p>
<p>Atlanta68 wrote:
</p>
<p>I’m a 57 year old southern sorority member living in the south again after years as an expat in the northeast and overseas. Last fall one of my sister-in-laws called to tell me her daughter was going to be pledging “our” sorority and invited me to join her for bid night. She is alum president in her area.</p>
<p>If you are going to try and change the system, I suggest the only way is to change rush entirely. The posts by the mom reporting her daughter’s sorority being concerned about number of out-of-state members are also extremely troubling to me.</p>
<p>It would be possible to put all the names in a hat and assign houses randomly. That solves the problem of exclusivity somewhat (there are still financial exclusions) and keeps what is positive about sorority life. imho. I don’t think my proposed plan has any real chance of success, but thought I would just throw it out there. It solves a lot of sorority problems very neatly.</p>
<p>pizzagirl: thanks for calling national</p>
<p>I don’t think any school can “change rush entirely” in a way that there aren’t any “unhappy campers”. We can’t pull names out of a hat, because each house does have a certain culture (not just at Bama, but everywhere). </p>
<p>Schools can’t issue race quotas either (each house must have X Blacks, Y Hispanics, Z Asians…lol). However, incentives are very powerful and can be used to get what the school wants. Rewards work. </p>
<p>I’ve made a thread where people can post good ideas that Bama (and other schools) can implement to more integrate the Houses.</p>
<p>That said, I don’t know if Bama (and other schools) will feel a bit hog-tied because the AA Houses don’t want to fully integrate either out of fear that their Houses will disappear and lose power. </p>
<p>Here’s the thread…let’s move on to productive ideas…
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-alabama/1552755-strategies-bama-consider.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-alabama/1552755-strategies-bama-consider.html</a></p>
<p>Thanks for what you are doing here, mom2collegekids.</p>
<p>I think the only way to solve the problem is to change the culture, since the culture is causing the problem. I doubt I have any feasible ideas, nor do I have a child at Alabama, so I won’t interfere with your threads.</p>
<p>My heart and thoughts are with all you Alabama parents and students as you deal with this going forward.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s the culture of “the school”, i think it’s the “Old Guard” misusing their power. The kids are more accepting of the idea of integration because that’s what they’re used to in other aspects of their social lives.</p>
<p>If you have an idea, then bring it on. Certainly Bama (and other schools) would welcome useful ideas no matter the source.</p>
<p>This situation does not define the UA. Most of the regular posters on this forum are either alum or have become a part of the UA family through having children who attend or have attended the UA. Some have Greek affiliations while others do not. The fact that we can openly discuss this openly brings hope. Although we often disagree on many issues, we can agree that this issue within the Greek community is ugly and needs correction. I’m hoping that the GLOs, along with the NPA and UA admin will carefully consider these accusations and see that those responsible are held accountable. I hope the resolution will dole out appropriate consequences for any and all inappropriate behaviors.</p>
<p>As a spectator relying upon media reports, I don’t have all of the answers. I will be watching closely as this is investigated and will continue to support what I know is an excellent school. I have expressed my displeasure regarding the undeserved negative press this has brought to the rest of the student body, faculty, and the community, but I remain steadfast in my commitment to the UA. For the sake of the entire community, I hope the investigation will be thorough and deliberate.</p>
<p>We have two more extremely talented children headed to the UA. Our commitment to the UA has not been shaken. To those who are considering the UA for 2014-2015 and beyond I urge you not to be shaken by this either. There are those who have come out of the woodwork to bash the UA. Look past that. Visit campus. Talk with students and faculty. Ask questions of the many regular posters on this forum who will be happy to share not only a wealth of information, but also their own personal experience as part of the UA family. I highly doubt the authenticity of anyone who says this has already or is likely to change their mind about attending or having their child attend the UA. If that is truly the case it would be a shame. You’ll be missing out on a great school, but I wish the good luck. Roll Tide y’all.</p>
<p>The young lady in question was definitely not cut after first round. And I hope that in all of the controversy, the fact that the girls in the house REALLY wanted this potential new member does not get lost. They tried to work around the alums who were in the way and felt strongly enough about it that they came forward to the press. It makes me sad to see news articles that are not accurate. The Crimson White article seemed to be the most fair and accurate from what I have been told by people inside one of the houses in question. This is currently a horrible situation, but I firmly believe that we are seeing the beginning of true change. The sorority actives should be commended for taking on their alums and coming forward with this story. The young ladies who went through recruitment should also be commended. This is the only way that change will happen.</p>
<p>I just emailed the President. UA is a fine institution and I hope the administration addresses the matter with great importance.</p>
<p>word on the street is that the PNM in question did sign up for continuous open bidding, so if a group were to offer her a bid, she seems to still be interested.</p>
<p>The article did not fact check, it seems. They claim that the sororities are “all white” and they’re not. Three girls in my dorm alone pledged this year. I know four black girls from my hometown and they all went through formal recruitment and pledged.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I 100% agree with. The young ones seem ready to move forward … the catch to change are the old-timers. I think creating change from within without pressure from the University will be tough, slow, and very incremental (and occasional AA pledge).</p>
<p>If Alabama, or any other school with AA representation issues in Greek life (virtually any school with Greek like), wants to really go after this it likely will be need to be driven by the school. </p>
<p>A school <em>could</em> do things like this.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Start by defining a strategic goals for Greek life that is heavily integrated into campus life and that uses campus resources (so the school has leverage with these “private” group). If it were me this would include a belief the Greek organizations would hopefully roughly resemble the demographics of the school (race, SES, religion, etc). Part of why I believe this could be powerful is I absolutely believe the posters that UA as a whole is very accepting and integrated to students from different races, SESs, states, religions, etc … the trick is how to extent that acceptance into the Greek life.</p></li>
<li><p>Given this goal do research why this is not happening now. For example, researching why AA students do not pledge the “white” sororities … don’t assume you know the the list or the reasons; ask the students. Another example, investigate the drops/votes in the rush process to see the impact of various steps such as the recommendations. Then given the knowledge figure out approaches to deal with the issues.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>As I mentioned in a previous post I am a process improvement specialist and in this case Alabama (and lots of other schools) have a very robust rush process. Run the same process year over year and get substantially the same result … same racial make-up and (big assumption on my part) the same upper SES make-up. Without changing this process the results will continue to be substantially the same … and if these results run counter to the school established goals then the process must be updated to reach the goals.</p>
<p>So far this part would probably go OK … where it would get tough is when specific proposals to change the current world occur. Some likely findings/recommendations might include.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Relook at the recommendation process … especially if the lack of recs is sighted as a reason to drop PNMs at any frequency. The rec process as described on CC often does not provide high quality info (see the threads on getting recs from total strangers) and favors those who travel in circles who already know about sorority recs. Multiple improvements could be made to this step.</p></li>
<li><p>Moving rush to either second semester frosh year or the beginning of second year. To me I see four big advantages to this move … 1) it allows students to have experience at Alabama before deciding to go Greek or not … 2) it allows those not in the know about Greek life to figure stuff out before rush starts … 3) allows groups of established friends to try to rush together (I’m guessing more AA folks would rush if they could go in with a known support system) … 4) could hold the rush preview stuff on campus while students are already on campus saving big bucks for lower SES students interested.</p></li>
<li><p>Look at the cost/financial aid of the process/Greek Life. Fly-in preview weekend, multiple outfits for rush, thousands of dollars a semester to be in a sorority … pretty much guarantees a heavy higher SES bias unless the houses provide a ton of financial aid. How can the experience be made available to wider set of Alabama students.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Many of the old guard would likely hate all of these or other similar proposals. There are process improvement techniques to address this resistance … like have the current sorority members be central to the teams developing the goals and suggestions … again, believing the idea the current students on the whole will be in favor of a more inclusive Greek system, they will determine the limitations of the current system and improvements to move things forward.</p>
<p>It can be done at Alabama (or any other school) however the school really needs to want the change and be willing to deal with the fallout from some Alumni … and it will happen when schools believe the gain will outweigh the pain.</p>
<p>^^great ideas!</p>
<p>I had no idea that alumni and advisors had anything to do with the actual PNM selection process. What a shame. I am most impressed with the young lady who went public with the inside story of what happened. I think with a real person giving details instead of “an anonymous source” and the fact that the young lady who got cut has a step-grandfather and step-father in political positions within AL, this might be the time when something really gets done. </p>
<p>I will say that D1 and I both said “For Crying Out Loud!” when we saw the NY Times article yesterday. As AL34 mentioned up thread, this story is just giving credence to what others’ preconceived notions of what Alabama (the state, the school, everything) must be like based upon their assumptions. Hopeful that because of this year’s media spotlight, next year we’ll be reading stories about how current UA students made changes based on their desire to have diverse membership.</p>
<p>And got rid of the interfering old biddies.</p>