I know this is taboo but........

<p>I just remembered a student I knew a few years ago who got a C in physics I at the big flagship state school. The kid was having a rough time of it anyway and this just made things worse so he delayed any further physics until the summer two years later and took physics II at the four year near his home. He aced the class and got an A+. The real difference was not that the class was easier, it was that the flagship school prof was ESL and the class was huge and the student simply floundered. In the summer session, it was a small class with a great prof and that made all the difference.</p>

<p>But that was a pretty unusual set of circumstance and there was a big time delay between classes and a big difference was the student’s attitude in addition to the prof differences.</p>

<p>^It also could be that student “matured” as a student in 2 years, got better college “study” skills, had other science classes and maybe even more math? Two years is a lot of time, not sure if comparison of Physics 1 and Physics 2 taken 2 years later is apples to apples.
So, I tend to agree with your last statement: "there was a big time delay between classes and a big difference was the student’s attitude in addition to the prof differences. "</p>

<p>Columbia09, don’t try to cater to the easy A. It won’t pay off. Not because adcoms will look down on this, but because a monster is looming.</p>

<p>What monster? </p>

<p>Picture the most hideous and unemotional monster that doesn’t care about you and feels no sympathy. The MCAT destroys people for a living. It takes your money and tears you apart. It is not a fair exam at all. Take the hardest classes and feel what it feels like to study for months (even years) and still come out of a test like you didn’t study. That is the MCAT. The MCAT is all that mattes and it is by far the worst part of applying to medical school. Don’t worry about your classes, they matter much less than the MCAT and the MCAT is way way way harder than any professor could ever make a class.</p>

<p>^jeez, someone is obviously not happy with their MCAT experience, and if you think the MCAT was that bad, I shudder to think how you’ll feel about USMLE Step 1.</p>

<p>Omnis: MCATs are slightly less important compared to your GPA so idk where you got your info from. </p>

<p>@somemom: That’s exactly why I wish to take physics over the summer. Classes at State College are huge and physics was one of my worst subjects in high school. I’m still deciding whether to take it over the summer or not. Maybe I could take physics 1 at the CC and physics 2 at my home school to even the blow but I’m still not sure.</p>

<p>

That wound is fresh, too.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>How did you fare on the SAT or any other standardized test for that matter? Many people study one to two months for the MCAT and do fine. If you’re having that much trouble with a test that has high school physics on it, consider going into another profession.</p>

<p>To most schools in the top 40, GPA and MCAT are either weighed equally or the MCAT is given more precedence. GPA is never more important than standardized tests. In every case you are going to need a 33+ if you are a white or asian male. Apply, you’ll see.</p>

<p>No the scars have healed, I just try to warn these young kids before they get hurt by the MCAT too.</p>

<p>Brian; top 1% in HS, 2200 on SAT, 4.0 in college (science and all other according to AMCAS). The MCAT is not easy, you have been forewarned. It is not an accurate assessment of your intelligence. Some people are naturally gifted toward the thinking required for this exam, and some aren’t. Some, like me, do acquire the correct train of thought and critical analysis, but it takes a long time (read: a lot longer than the 1 month you quoted). Actually, I don’t know anyone in real life who studied for the MCAT less than 3 months and broke the 30 barrier. It’s a true test of your willingness to enter medicine.</p>

<p>Also, Brian it is not content that makes the MCAT hard. I got A’s in my physics classes and they were not easy (read: good school with lots of really smart kids). The MCAT PS is 70% reading comprehension and analysis and 30% content. Content will only take you to a 8-9, not good enough to get into a “competitive” school. To break a 10+ you need more skills, and that is what they are testing, not basic science. Take the MCAT, and you will see. Again, I’m just trying to warn you. Best of luck on your MCAT studies.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Does getting a 30 count? If so, I accomplished that. I studied end of Jan to mid-Apr and got a 30 on my first sitting, which was 2-4pts lower than I was expecting (and had gotten on multiple full-length Kaplan and AAMC tests). Friends (4?) in my same prep class who studied for the same amount of time as I did got better scores than me. Additionally, I can only think of two applicants regularly represented on this board who scored less than 30 (both are med students now). I promise I’m a real person, but perhaps it doesn’t count because I don’t know you in real life.</p>

<p>I don’t know where you’re getting your facts about med schools’ attitudes re: GPA and MCAT, nor where you’re getting the idea that the MCAT is a monster that can’t be tamed, and while I appreciate the notion of warning future applicants about difficult aspects of the test, your gross overestimation of the difficulty of the test is inappropriate in my opinion.</p>

<p>(Also, Brian doesn’t plan to take the MCAT)</p>

<p>Whatever you and your friends are using to study is obviously not working. I have 3 friends who in addition to me studied and took the exam over a summer (i.e. 2 months max) and all scored over 30 with one of my friends over 40. One of them (not the 42) did it full time, the rest of us did it in conjunction with full time research. We are by no means geniuses. I have also personally taught and tutored students who got over 30 without studying beyond 3-4 months while in class or 2-3 months over the summer.</p>

<p>It’s interesting how you have no data to support any of your claims regarding admissions and how it works while the rest of us have shown you a plethora.</p>

<p>I am sorry that your MCAT experience didn’t work out for you. We all used Kaplan so maybe you should retake the test after working with them.</p>

<p>I remember it well: D1 graduated the third week in May, we took a trip in the desert SW into the first week in June, she studied & took a Kaplan course, and sat the MCAT in mid-August. >30</p>

<p>As my D’s commented in regard to her interviewing applicants at her Med. School: they do not know what they are getting into. Her comment was in regard to the level of academic rigor at Med. School.<br>
My answer to ANY difficulty level in UG - take the most difficult classes, not less challenging. Adjust your work habits, instead of adjusting your schedule. It is a shock, no matter where you went for UG. Do not make this more difficult for yourself later on. We heard the myth that for some Med. School is easier. D. does not have a single student in her class who thinks so. Her class includes Phd from Harvard, few lawyers, few Masters in Science and huge number of Ivy and other Elite UG’s graduates as well as few from state publics (like my D.).</p>

<p>Miami,</p>

<p>I understand that your daughter does not agree or that maybe this is semantic, but the “myth” you are referring to is that many people think that CONCEPTUALLY med school is easier than UG. I am one of those and I am not alone. Overall is it easier? Of course not because the volume of material is massive but if med school moved at the same pace as UG it would be a breeze.</p>

<p>^Conceptual material is NOT difficult. Everybody underestiamte the amount of material that they have to MEMORIZE. The amount is close to impossible. And this is the HARD part. We are not computers, we are human beings, but you have to practically forget it in Med. School. Frankly, I personally would never attempt, I do not have this ability at all, and considering difficulty level of my education, I was in Engineering for many years, which “conceptually” might be the hardest of them all. No wonder I heard that engineers do not make good Med. Students. No, I was NOT talking about “conceptual” at all in post #33.</p>

<p>If you’re being taught that med school is strictly rote memorization of medical facts and not about honing your critical thinking and analysis skills while continuing to develop a genuine love of learning and understanding, then I am really sorry that your med school is stuck in the dark ages.</p>

<p>I’m with iwannabebrown here. The concepts aren’t exceptionally challenging; it’s the volume that makes med school such a beast. Learning what to study (and what not to study) as well as how to study efficiently is the key to being a great med student.</p>

<p>Well, D’s school actually have newer type of program, some schools (like Yale) are coming to check it out. I do not know anything about it. She said that their first and second year is using the same concept of learning, while most other schools are different in first and second year programs. It was a bit of physics concepts in study of heart and lungs and a bit of chemistry in Kidneys (according to my D.), but the hardest part is amount of memorization. Again, I have no idea and this sounds like completely impossible taks to me as I have no memory capability which resulted in choosing engineering and CS fields, the last requires practically no memory.<br>
I admire all of you in Med. School. I think of you as super humans! I do not know how you can “conceptualize” all the names of muscles and bones and their beginnings and endings, but some might have a clue though, for most others, it is “rote memorization”.</p>

<p>Regarding the MCAT scoring, my DD is one of the two sub-30 MCAT people Kristin referenced. One thing I for which I have solid anecdotal proof:</p>

<p>Once you have passed some thresh hold MCAT score which means you are capable of learning the curriculum, the MCAT scores do not correlate directly to one’s success in med school. One of DDs good friends was 36-38 MCAT and IIR the friend NEVER outscored DD on exams. So, while the MCAT is an easy tool to screen a pile of 10,000 down to a more manageable number, a lower rather than higher MCAT does not predict ones abilities as a med student or as a doctor.</p>

<p>However, if you are a lousy standardized test taker, then you are going to be struggling to beat the curve/norm on each successive standardized test and that average STEP 1 will affect your options in the same way an average MCAT score screens you out of some numbers driven schools.</p>

<p>It is just a fact of life. Deal with it. You can still be an outstanding physician.</p>

<p>Rabi- you seem bitter, were you a CA student? I can see a sub-30 killing you in CA and some other states. I do understand that you are the very same person this year as you were last year and it seems silly that you retaking the same test makes you a better candidate. You know you are the same great person, but you are seeing the flaw in the system. It is not designed to find the hidden gems, it is designed to make it easier to choose candidates. Just as most HYPS applicants would be successful students, but only 10% are offered admission, it is just a filter. But that hurts when you are the one filtered out.</p>

<p>I am sure I would have less equanimity about it had DD not gotten into med school and had to do another round of expensive and time consuming applications!</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>This reminds me of a case which I learned from SDN a few years back. It took an applicant from California 3 times before he got into a med school (UT-SW). He lamented afterwards that the only difference between his second and his last applications is his MCAT score (up by 2 or 3 points, likely from 35 to 38. To be sure, his other “serious” weak point is that his UG major and internship experience was career oriented – business, He stopped doing this in his very last application.)</p>

<p>My apologies Miami, but if that’s not what you meant than I have no idea who is telling you such crazy things because, as you said, the level of work required is not even comparable. I used to go days without touching a book or my notes in college and never started studying more than 3 days before a test. I couldn’t imagine doing that in med school.</p>