<p>I know almost everyone going to Duke is very smart. Most of us had 4.0's or 3.9's in high school. We're all used to being the best and getting A's. What I don't understand is why people want to skip as many introductory classes as they can and compete with sophomores on many of these bell curves Duke has. Wouldn't it make more sense to take intro level classes as many as you can to get easy A's in them? If you say that they're not easy A's, and that's why you're skipping them, then why don't you apply that logic to these classes you're taking in place of them? For example, I've heard to skip Chemistry 21L and 22L, and start with 151L (Organic). Now, what is the logic in this? Start out with organic chemistry while trying to get accustomed to the college atmosphere? Doesn't sound too smart. Can anyone give me a reason (besides the "love of learning, challenge yourself reason") to exempt many intro classes and start out at higher ones? Thank you.</p>
<p>My $0.02: You already know the stuff, so why waste your time? I, at least, only enjoy things when they get challenging and I know a lot of people who feel the same way. This way you even get more time to explore other areas of study not necessarily within your major.</p>
<p>And, I personally think that you wouldn't truly get accustomed to college until you actually start taking college-level courses and not high-school courses.</p>
<p>Chem 151 has a special section for freshmen. It's an entirely different bell curve. Personally, I didn't think it was that bad.</p>
<p>Well if people were to take classes over again that they already had aP credit in, would it be easier to get an A in there as compared to a higher-difficulty course?</p>
<p>bump .</p>
<p>It matters.. there are many classes such as Math 32 or Chem 23 in which many people have the credit to place higher, but choose to stay in that class.. so there will be a lot of competition among all the people who took a similar course for A's. </p>
<p>From what I've heard, unlike high school, no math/science class at Duke can be considered an easy A.</p>
<p>Idk about orgo first semester freshmen year because that just sounds masochistic. But yeah, some intro classes are definitely harder because they are weed out classes.</p>
<p>Let me put it this way:</p>
<p>Intro class = 300 freshmen. Professor doesn't care what you get. To him/her, you are a name/student ID/test paper. Usually, you won't bother talking to him/her too much. Duke don't want it to seem like there's grade inflation, so some departments mandate bell curves or 15% A's or w/e. Curves vary, but someone somewhere will end up with a C or D no question about it. You bomb a test because you went out the night before, played too much video games, thought you knew the stuff, or the professor just likes to make tricky exams, well you are out of luck. When each test counts for 20% of your final grade, and you bomb one, you aren't getting that 4.0 no matter how much of the material you know.</p>
<p>Advanced/Midlevel classes = 50 or less per class. You get to know the professor. He/she knows you. The class usually don't have the grade constraints of huge intro classes. What does that mean? Well, if the professor sees that you are busting you @$$ and working hard, you just might see a B+ (3.5) instead of that B- (2.7) or B (3.0) that you thought you were going to get. And curves are much more generous in advanced classes. (I had a BME test where a question was worth 20%. Turns out, if I had left it blank, I would've technically scored a 15/20 which was actually above the 14/20 class average for the question.)</p>
<p>With regards to AP: what you are taught in AP is straight forward, untricky, uncomplicated. It's just know you concepts and regurgitate on the test. Not so with the Duke equivalent courses. Different professors have quirks. Case in point: my Chem 23 professor happens to love teaching Orgo because that's what he does for a living. But chem 23 is an intro general chem course. Some professors are known to make hard tests, others tricky tests, and others for their 50 test averages. Just because you know the stuff on the AP, doesn't mean you'll do well. There's a reason Math 32 (Calc BC) is one of the most failed course at Duke (if not THE most failed course).</p>
<p>So when you hear advice like:</p>
<p>1) skip math 31/32
2) skip chem 21/22</p>
<p>take it because chances are, the person telling you this stuff is not lying. Why get a B or even a C in a course when you can get AP credit for it and have it not count toward GPA? Save the bad grades for the actual hard stuff.</p>
<p>Thanks SBR! </p>
<p>"Save the bad grades for the actual hard stuff."</p>
<p>But wouldn't it be better if we tried to get good grades in intro classes so if we get bad grades in harder classes, it cancels out? I mean, if we study hard in something we already took AP/IB in, would that be okay?</p>
<p>But most kids "study hard" and have credit. Chem 21/22 are probably easy Bs for kids with AP credit. But there is no such thing as an easy A.</p>
<p>Even if you worked your butt off and studied like crazy in the general science classes, is it still that difficult to pull off an A?</p>
<p>If you have to "work your butt off and study like crazy" than the A is no longer easy.</p>
<p>This is my personal experience with the whole situation here. I went into Duke wanting to be a chemistry major. I had AP credit for chemistry and Calc 1 and 2. I really liked chemistry and saw that the chemistry department specifically designed a first semester organic chemistry class for freshmen. I took it, it was challenging, the students as a whole were smarter than me. Yes it was a wake up call, but in the end I learned all of the material well and got a decent grade because the freshman orgo class seems to curve a little nicer. I was also well prepared and acclimated to Duke by the time second semester came along and I had to take orgo 2. This I don't regret doing at all.</p>
<p>Math was another story. I figured I'd take Math 32 (Calc II) even though I had AP credit for it instead of jumping right away into Math 103 (Calc 3). In general, I didn't learn much from the class and got my worst grade at Duke. I paid attention and studied and did all my work, however so did everyone else. Additionally, the curve didn't seem to be the nicest. Also the professor was very young, and it was his first semester at Duke. He wasn't very good. In general, my professors here have been amazing, but this guy was just annoying. The material was tougher and trickier than AP Calc, but I don't think that this translated into better understanding of the subject. If I were to do it again I just wouldn't have taken math at all freshman year and taken Math 103 at the start of sophomore year. I'm sure other people will have different thoughts on this.</p>
<p>The problem is that at Duke, Ivies, etc. there are many many other students in the class who are doing the exact same thing as you, and are <em>still</em> willing to study their asses off. So, skip any class you can AP out of (except maybe physics) and just take the next class up</p>
<p>I second elpope on physics. If you have Physics C credit for both Mech and E&M, go ahead the take Physics 61 (mechanics) if you are in pratt. It's one of the few easy A's at Duke for people who really understand their AP material. </p>
<p>if you don't take Physics 61, you have to either take Physics 63 or 62, both of which I hear is harder than 61.</p>
<p>Phys 62 covers more material in a good amount more depth than AP Physics C E&M. It also uses calculus a lot more than the AP.</p>
<p>Man...this thread is getting me depressed. I pretty much have to take the general courses and it seems like my GPA will go downhill.</p>
<p>I still don't see what is that bad about intro-level classes? Is it the curves? the information? the number of people? what? I also still dont understand how you can expect to get an A in a class like Orgo I if you're too afraid to take Chem 21L.</p>
<p>
[quote]
if you don't take Physics 61, you have to either take Physics 63 or 62
[/quote]
Annoyingly, you can't jump into 63 unless you've had multivariable calc. I had to take Math 103 first.</p>
<p>DeltaRoyale, I'm a Classics/Biology double major. Without AP credit (or retaking the courses), the biology major would have taken 16 courses. Using my AP credit, it only takes 10 (possibly 9). Why waste 6 courses on stuff I already know?</p>
<p>No one can "expect" to get an A. DeltaRoyale, what we are trying to tell you is there are NO easy As. You might get a B in 21 and a B in Orgo, so why not just skip ahead into Orgo and take the B? </p>
<p>Everyone at Duke is smart. Most work fairly hard and there are no sure As.</p>
<p>Also, I am pretty sure if you take 61, you still have to take 62 even if you have AP credit (I could be wrong, but Ive heard this multiple times).</p>
<p>I wouldn't say there is anything "bad" about intro classes, DeltaRoyale. For the most part the professors are good (besides that one exception I had for Math 32). The curves tend to be tough for math and science intro classes, however they are comparable to the next level up. The information is more than an AP class would have and normally more in depth from what I've seen. Number of people also is comparable to the next level up (gen chem and orgo both consist of large lectures and smaller labs - not sure how the recitations work anymore; math classes tend to be around 30 people I believe). My general opinion is why stress out over the same material? It's going to be similar material to what you've already learned except, in my opinion, a little more tedious. My two cents if you already have credit for a class: Might as well move on to the next level if you are going to take that soon anyway or simply skip the subject entirely for a semester or two and take another class that seems interesting.</p>