<p>Minorities have to work way harder? First: that's not necessarily true. Just because you're a minority doesn't mean you're not privileged.</p>
<p>My family never took for granted where I would end up. My grandfather came from Germany to escape Hitler and worked on a railroad 16 hours a day so his sons could one day get a proper education. His brothers were all killed in Germany. Tell me MY people haven't experienced difficulty and I'll show you monkeys flying out of an inappropriate place. But I don't benefit at all. Because my people value education enough to actually put effort into their future. </p>
<p>It's fairly clear that the original poster is privileged as well. That's what annoys me so much.</p>
<p>Do you realize what it's like to be poor? You're privileged too. We're speaking from the same perspective, you from your heart, I from my brain.</p>
<p>The only "white bias" in standardized testing in education and standardized testing is the bias of intelligence. Period. There, I said what everyone wants to.</p>
<p>I'm from extremely poor conditions, yes, and if I weren't I hope I still wouldn't be self-occupied enough not to realize I've had it easier than many, many other people that would be a very positive influence on college and society were they to get accepted.</p>
<p>Haha, I'm sorry, but there's a reason minorities fare less well in school and on standardized tests: white culture, viewpoints and language predominate. Who gets to be defined as "intelligent" or an "intellectual"? These are extremely subjective qualities traditionally defined through a white, bourgeoisie lens. Also, I assume you've never heard of the Pygmallion effect?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, why is it, ckmed, do you think, that so few black kids apply to college? Get accepted at college? Stay in college as compared to white? They're just not "best" enough, as a group, as a race?
[/quote]
Whatever the cause, it correlates extremely well race. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Unless this is the conclusion you want to arrive at, think long and hard on how preposterous it is with the current state of education to expect black kids to have the same opportunities as white. ONE way of breaking that cycle is to make college, and other key institutions, more accessible to minorities.
[/quote]
So wait...should Asian students face higher standards than Whites because they can perform at a high level on a per capita basis? So we should make college more accessible to whites?</p>
<p>Overall, you seem to miss the point by a long shot. Affirmative action helps well-to-do Blacks & Hispanics and hurts poor Whites and Asians. Is that your equality?</p>
<p>There are plenty of white children with just as little economic and academic opportunity - there are many black kids who are far better off.</p>
<p>There is NO ONE WAY standard to use for everyone. Which is why affirmative action doesn't make sense - it doesn't award the poor black kid who might have been working their butt off to do better than what happened before them. In all reason - it affords luxury to a few minorities who are probably at least middle class, who might have had a 100 points lower on the SAT than they needed.</p>
<p>I agree that AA should take class into account over race, but class & race intersect. From two equally competent and privileged applicants, the minority should be accepted first. And, it is not about lowering standards - it is about accepting that our society puts unequal pressure on students from different backgrounds, and in addition, needs to take the responsibility for weighing that up. A non-white, non-privileged perspective is very, very needed in academia. And I don't believe for one second, especially given the history of Western education, that performance in school correlates to "intelligence".</p>
<p>I am all for diversity - racial, socioeconomic. </p>
<p>My problem with affirmative action isn't that URM benefit, but that the people who actually should be admitted under it, aren't being. There is an overall lack of minority students, and a biased socioeconomic representation of white students in our nations most elite colleges - and its really quite sad.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE/]
You can equally say that i am denied admissions to top colleges because my not-so-distant relatives (circa 1980s) decided to work hard and get to good colleges. Because of this there are too many Asians at colleges and I will not be able to get in due to AA.
[QUOTE]
</p>
<p>yes that is what i see as the problem with aa.</p>
<p>if give one group an advantage (which is a good thing before considering what happens to everyone else), then you necessarilly penalize other groups when they havn't done anything wrong.</p>
<p>
[quote]
My problem with affirmative action isn't that URM benefit, but that the people who actually should be admitted under it, aren't being. There is an overall lack of minority students, and a biased socioeconomic representation of white students in our nations most elite colleges - and its really quite sad.
[/quote]
Are you serious? There is a point where the workload becomes impossible if you don't deserve to be there. There are certain engineering/math/physics majors at schools where the overall "URM" rate is amazingly low. This is a correct stance. Putting people into school to fail is idiotic.</p>
<p>So, putting URM's or more low/middle class whites/asians is a sure-sign that they will fail?</p>
<p>This is ridiculous - don't act as if there aren't plenty of schools with just-as-rigorous academics as ivies. There are enough kids who can do the work at these institutions to fill 10x the amount of available seats. </p>
<p>I'm not advocating to walk out onto the street and find these people - but there are kids who fall into these situations who have worked, and because of their determination to succeed - would do just fine in these programs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So, putting URM's or more low/middle class whites/asians is a sure-sign that they will fail?</p>
<p>This is ridiculous - don't act as if there aren't plenty of schools with just-as-rigorous academics as ivies. There are enough kids who can do the work at these institutions to fill 10x the amount of available seats.</p>
<p>I'm not advocating to walk out onto the street and find these people - but there are kids who fall into these situations who have worked, and because of their determination to succeed - would do just fine in these programs.
<p>Affirmative action is used to promote diversity and if you think about it AAs have only really been free for a little over 30 years. I would consider that a great deal of catching up to do. However all the AA in the world cannot change the mentality of most people. I still think that making it a national policy for their to be a socioeconomic blend in all public forms of education up until 12th grade would so some good. Then there would have to be a proper spread of the money. Sure busing would be a problem, but I say it would be worth it. I forgot where it is, but I believe it is someonewhere in Maryland where this is being practiced and the grades of the kids from poorer backgrounds are better when amongst other with high aspirations. However I know there are certain places in the US where this would not fly. Being an African-American I'm really stuck when it comes to affirmative action because I've seen so many people with wasted potential that suceed later on, but at the same time there are those who never blossom and it's hard to tell someone who's been working hard for their entire life to step aside. Still having certain schools when applying for a job such as Georgetown helps greatly in a lot of cases and being an AA I know that most are overlooked for top level jobs. Honestly I think it has a lot to do with culture because people with African parents like mine who are born in the US do better than American-born blacks, generally speaking. Though I identify more with American culture seeing how this is where I was born and raised. (PLus no one knows I have African parents unless I tell them.......I guess they think we all look the same).</p>
<p>AA has so many different meanings I just thought of
- American Airlines
- Associates Degree (or AA degree)
- African American
- Affirmitive Action
- Alcoholics Anonymous</p>
<p>
[quote]
white culture, viewpoints and language predominate
[/quote]
How nice. Why not just say it straight? You obviously think that all whites think, speak, and act the same. Think about it. If all whites do X the same, then consequently, according to your thoughts, all minorities do X the same. So, so false.</p>
<p>He means that growing we learn everything from a very western or eurocentric point of view. Learning something from one point of view may not be a problem in a country such as Japan, but in one as diverse and with the history of the US it's a problem. I think for example African-American history should be taught more than just random tidbits in February in elementary school. It shouldn't even be called black history it should just be taught as part of American history....I don't think there should be a need for a black history month. Though it shouldn't be a throwaway like the multiculturalism class my HS used to have.......it was so dumb from what I hear.</p>