<p>I have lots of choices, and I'm really agonizing over making a decision. I really need to make my choice within the next few days, and I will no be able to visit before I decide.</p>
<p>I got into 3 top 25 LACS (Grinnell, MHC, Smith), but of course they will cost a lot and I will have to take out loans. I also have a full tuition scholarship at a small school that is only well known in the south. I keep making this into a choice between debt and no debt, when I'm sure I should be considering all of the other factors. I just can't get away from thinking about cost. Was/is anyone here in my same situation? Any thoughts, regrets, etc? </p>
<p>What can Smith give me that I can't get anywhere else?
I'm thinking that being surrounded by intelligent and interested students is really important, is this over or under-rated?
What can you tell me about the Alumni network? Is it really as big and useful as people say it is?</p>
<p>How much debt? (It is hard to evaluate without such information.) I can tell you that the alumni network IS big, and devoted, and useful. </p>
<p>Some debt (I usually think $20k or less) is simply your skin in the game, and should be manageable; above that needs to be negotiated with caution.</p>
<p>I agree, it’s a bit hard to tell from the info you gave (though if that’s all you’re comfortable sharing, that’s fine). Mini pretty much summed it up. Some debt is manageable, though of course the absolute ideal is to have no debt. </p>
<p>What do you like about the small school that gave you the good scholarship? Can you picture yourself there? Does it have the courses and majors that you want? What kinds of things attract you to Grinnell, Smith, and MHC. Can you find some of those at the smaller school (maybe not all, but some)? From what you know about the student body, do you think when you’re not studying you would find something to do that you like? People that enjoy some of the same stuff as you? Those can be some good starter questions for you to ask yourself. </p>
<p>As for the alum network at Smith, yes, it really is as good as they say. Per being surrounded by intelligent students who are interested in learning, that’s kind of personal. I personally find it more comfortable to be in an academic situation where I don’t have to hold myself back to avoid looking out of place among my peers. I spent too much time in middle school especially pretending to be dumber than I was because I didn’t want to show up my peers and become a target for their envy. Even in high school, when I switched to a more rigorous school, I spent some time suppressing some of my nerdier tendencies because I wanted to fit into the predominately preppy atmosphere. What I found freeing about Smith is that I wasn’t the smartest kid there, and I definitely wasn’t the nerdiest or the most well-read or the only person that had seen a black and white movie or the only person that liked modern art or read the NY Times daily. I was just one of many, part of a crazy and very wide spectrum, and not only did I not have to hold myself back, I had to scramble to keep up. And that was nice, just being myself for a while.</p>
<p>The amount of debt is different for each school. Grinnell has a loan cap of $8,000, Emory of $15,000, and as far as I know Smith and MHC don’t have caps so they will be around $27,000 (maybe a couple thousand less) for 4 years. My Mom is a single Mom, and my dad does not plan to contribute. I am a twin, so my sister and I will be going off to college at the same time. My Mom has a government job, and she will likely be taking a 5% pay cut next year (if they don’t cut her entire position). They will also be taking 25% of her retirement benefits.</p>
<p>Also, I’m thinking of going on to medical school which is really expensive. I would like to save a little for that so that I’m not forced to pay off a few hundred thousand in loans. The quicker I can pay off med school debt, the sooner I can work for Doctors Without Borders. </p>
<p>About the small school: The student body is my biggest concern. I was hosted by one of their best and brightest, and I really did not get along with her. I think it’s really important that people care about what’s going on in the world, and I think I would be annoyed if I were surrounded by a few thousand who care more about the history of beer than the history of genocide. </p>
<p>I attended an online Smith chat and learned about SmithSTAND. I was really excited because it looks so active, and it seems like people at Smith care about the world. I found that the small school has a STAND club, so I got the contact info for the president of the STAND club. She was discouraged and dissapointed because her events are poorly attended. I asked if the students have intellectual conversations and she said that they are rare. I quote: “People say, what’s an intellectual conversation?” So, I conclude that being academic or wanting to debate is a little taboo. I’ve been surrounded by people who didn’t like me because I’m a geek for all my life, but it hasn’t ever stopped me from performing. I just think it would be refreshing to know that there are people like me out there. </p>
<p>As for other disadvantages, Grinnell has 100 study abroad programs while the small school has 8 (none in Africa, which is where I want to go). Grinnell has 1 million endowment per student; small school has $50,000. </p>
<p>Advantages of the small school: I could probably make my own opportunities if I worked at it. The weather is nice. I like the location. They have an honors program. They will take my transfer credits (from Community College High school program). People have great things to say about the professors for the most part. They have a global dorm (although in its infancy.) They are cheap for me. Maybe I’ll learn how to party.</p>
<p>Sigh. Medical school in four years is going to be $270k, give or take. If you take the full tuition offer now, will your mom be able to save some of that money and use it to give you a leg up in med school? </p>
<p>Now, of course, the majority of students who go to college thinking of being pre-med don’t end up there, but if that is really where your heart is, it would be difficult to urge you to use up your mom’s resources and go $27k into debt on top of that. </p>
<p>I almost can’t say enough good things about Smith, but sometimes a reality check is really necessary.</p>
<p>It’s always a difficult situation when you have divorced parents and one of them isn’t willing to contribute. For one thing, it’s almost impossible to get a non-custodial parent waiver unless they’re completely out of the picture. It’s hard because you didn’t cause your parent’s situation, but you suffer because of it. </p>
<p>Still, I kind of agree with mini, going $27,000 into debt, especially if you’re really serious about medical school, is going to put added burden on top of the loans you’ll need for future education. I usually say that people shouldn’t take grad school so much into account in these decisions, because for one thing, it’s hard to know when you’re 18 what you’re going to really want when you’re 22. I thought I wanted to go to law school and I definitely did not by the end of college. But if you are serious about med school, it’s good to start planning now. </p>
<p>What about Grinnell? They have a loan cap, as you say, and it’s a very good college. You might be able to split the difference by going there, where you’d be taking on fewer loans, but still be able to get a rich academic experience. Still, the best thing if you’re going to med school would be to either accrue few loans or no loans. You might give the small school a second look. It sounds like you haven’t had very good experiences there so far, but even if the STAND club is not well attended, maybe other clubs are. And if you didn’t like thier best and brightest student, I bet there will probably be a few students there you do get along with. No school is perfect, but in most places you can usually find some advantages.</p>
<p>Even if is no loans, your mother is still shelling out for tuition (or a portion thereof), funds that could, at least in theory, be going toward medical school. I doubt that the loans are the biggest part of the equation.</p>
<p>I’m going to pick up on what SmithieandProud said about getting a non-custodial parent waiver. I don’t know what’s involved in getting one, but it’s worth briefly checking out. Is your dad in the picture at all, in any way?</p>
<p>No my dad is not in the picture at all. I got the waiver. My sister and I finally got to live with our Mom full time beginning 3 years ago. He pays child support (400 per kid w/ 2 of us) but that stops this month. I have a UGMA account, but it does not have nearly enough to pay for more than half of the costs for an undergrad degree at Smith, MHC, Grinnell, Emory of Oxford, pretty much anywhere. My mother should have put the money in a 529 account so that it would count as a parental contribution, but she didn’t. The money was left from an insurance settlement because my sister an I were born prematurely (2 lbs 3 ounces) and we were double insured. I guess the thing to do at the time was to have a UGMA. The schools want the entire UGMA (student contribution), $10,000 per year per child parental contribution (my Mom really can’t give that much, and she has two going to college at the same time), between $2,000 and $8,000 per year loans, and work study. The UGMA has about $100,000 in it, and I could keep about half of it after expenses of 4 years at the small school.</p>
<p>Oh, and my mom underquoted the amount in the UGMA when filling out the FAFSA and CSS profile. This has really been a nightmare. Also, she switched my sisters SSN with mine and that was incredibly difficult to fix. Now, that’s fixed but I still don’t really have the ability to compare offers with confidence. I don’t really have any reliable estimates of costs, and I probably won’t have them until decisions already must be made.</p>
<p>Hmm, that’s a difficult one. Has your sister decided what school she’s going to go to? If so, you might be able to get your aid reconsidered slightly based on how much her college is going to cost. If your mom wasn’t already paying for her tuition at the time you applied to Smith, it may not have been fully factored in.</p>
<p>That being said, it sounds like you’re in kind a tight bind. And if you already have a nice amount of money set off in a savings account, and you’re sure about med school, the smart thing might be to take the scholarship at the small school and hold on to your savings for the future. I know maybe it sounds like the small school isn’t going to be your crowd, but I bet you could find at least a few people that also have your same dedication to learning, even if it’s not reflected in the student body as a whole. And you might be surprised about how much you like it. If nothing else, it’s just one step towards your ultimate goal of becoming a doctor, and four years go by very quickly.</p>
<p>This is the compromise I have come up with: I will go to the small school and give it a shot. There, I will take courses that will transfer. If I really don’t like it, I can transfer to Smith. This may save money because I will have more credits to transfer. Also, I may end up liking the small school. What do you all think?</p>
<p>I think that is a very mature approach, and I think you will do great. When you go, don’t think about transferring - love the one you’re with. And then, if it doesn’t work out, you can think about the transfer option.</p>
<p>I think it’s a reasonable plan. A couple of caveats: 1. If you want to study abroad at a non-Smith program, that could be difficult because Smith requires a certain number of Smith credits in order to maintain its academic standards. If you transfer after your first-year at the small school, then that would be less of a problem. 2. You would need to be very careful about choosing courses that will transfer, and you might check with Smith beforehand, as two transfer students I know of did lose credits when they transferred and have needed to add a semester. Of course, one student wasn’t even thinking of transferring from the beginning; she figured she was going to stay at her first school all four years until a prof told her she really should transfer to Smith. I think it also depends on the school you’d be transferring from. If you want to share what that school is, it might help in evaluating your transfer chances.</p>
<p>Who knows? You might like the small school after all!</p>
<p>The school is Stetson University in Deland, Florida. My sister has not made a decision yet, but she has a scholarship to Stetson that is $6,000 shy of what I have ( per year). She wants to be a diplomat. She got denied at Smith but she is considering MHC, Denison, and Oxford of Emory. We both visited (free trip) to Gustavus Adolphus in Minnesota, and she may be going there (if they give her a lot of money.) I have their highest merit award, but it still isn’t as cheap as Stetson. Even with the merit award, Gustavus is almost twice the price. I like Gustavus a lot, and my visit was wonderful. I just don’t like the weather, and I don’t think it has any more prestige than Stetson. Both are well known in their corners of the country. Both have Global dorms, but Stetson’s is kind of in its infancy. My sister and I are both accepted to the Honors program at Stetson, and they have a design your own major option that is pretty cool. I think that being in the Honors program would help me to transfer if I want to.</p>
<p>I want to echo a few pts here and make a few more:</p>
<p>1) Going somewhere with a plan to transfer is a bad idea. It keeps you from getting emotionally invested the way you need to in order to have a successful experience. And if you already know the place isn’t a great fit, that’s a serious problem in a small school. </p>
<p>2) Being surrounded by smart people is highly motivating: You set higher standards for yourself, you learn more from others, and the faculty don’t have to spend time teaching to a ‘lowest common denominator’ that is lower than your comfort level. </p>
<p>3) Assuming some debt is not unreasonable: Few people graduate debt free - and places with large endowments often offer grants and other work/study opportunities to help offset some of that. (Example: Grinnell offers grants to students to support their work at nonprofits over the summer and their research year round. And once you are on campus, every student activity is free.)</p>
<p>4) Pre-med advising is likely to be better at schools that have a significant number of students who apply. Check this stat at all the schools you are considering. If your ‘bargain’ school doesn’t have many people applying to med school, you may find yourself at a considerable disadvantage in terms of preparation and guidance.</p>
<p>I want to put in a plug here for Grinnell, where my S is pre-med. Grinnell is well known for it’s academic rigor and work ethic, the science facilities are state-of-the-art, and the endowment is huge given the size of the school, which means there is a lot of money to fund student activities - your financial aid offer reflects this. Best of all has been the exceptional mentoring - it’s Grinnell’s strong suit. </p>
<p>I’m not planning to transfer, but that doesn’t mean I want to close the door on transferring. I’ll give the school a shot and put my heart into it. Then, if I don’t like it I’ll know that I tried. Wouldn’t that be awful if I did decide I wanted to transfer, and I couldn’t get in anywhere? </p>
<p>I don’t know. I still don’t know what to do. I have to make this choice quickly if I want to get a spot in the Global Village living learning community. I just hate making this decision. It seems like there’s no way to win the jackpot here. With one option, I pay a lot and take out a pile or loans for med school (if I decide to go to med school), but I get to enjoy being around more people who are like me. With the other option, I can save for med school but it may be a little tough to find my kind of people. I don’t know! One second I’m gung ho for one option and the next I’m back where I started drawing another pro and con chart. Ugh!</p>
<p>If you have a loan cap of $8,000 at Grinnell, that is very very small potatoes in the scheme of college debt. If you were my kid, I would urge you to go to Grinnell, where you will get an outstanding education, the kind that will help you do well in your medical school admissions, and then your in-state medical school (assuming you have the grades and stats). The overall level of debt would be highly manageable for someone with an MD. And if you change your mind about medicine, $8,000 can be paid off relatively easily once you have a job.</p>