<p>Smallz</p>
<p>Again listen closely. Im not sayiong you should leave for not saying it. I,m saying you should leave for not WANTING to say it. You should be proud of your country and who you are. What does it take out of your day to say the pledge, 30 seconds maybe ? Why is it so hard to give up 30 seconds to show your patriotism? Its unamerican to be unwilling to say the pledge.</p>
<p>how is that different than what I said?</p>
<p>You said "I,m saying you should leave for not WANTING to say it."</p>
<p>I said "And by suggesting that you should leave because you don't say this passage is unamerican"</p>
<p>what other interpretation is there than not wanting to say? Physically unable to say it?</p>
<p>If you don't say it...it's because you don't want to.</p>
<p>Im WaRNinG YA smaLLZ</p>
<p>im warning ya to stop or else.....i will make a thread BAHAHA</p>
<p>"And by suggesting that you should leave because you don't say this passage is unamerican!"</p>
<p>You said that if someone does not speak the pledge. Im saying wanting to. There is a major differnce. If you dont want to say the pledge why are you here? </p>
<p>Give me one VALID reason why you should not say the pledge ?</p>
<p>Again I say...if you don't say the pledge, it is because you don't want to. There is no other interpretation. So with that, you are saying that not saying the pledge warrants your dismissal from this country. That, my friend, is utterly and completely unamerican. </p>
<p>WHy shouldn't I say the pledge? because I know that my love and support for this country goes far beyond saying one lyric. Way beyond me looking at a flag, and way beyond subdueing to people like you.</p>
<p>You still haven't denied that it is unamerican.</p>
<p>Smallz</p>
<p>What a lame excuse for not saying a pargraph, not even, every morning. I cant belive any one would say they feel so american when they wont even say a damned lyric. I am very patriotic and love this country, and Im thankful that I have had oppurtunities many have not. So let me get this straight. Your such an american that you dont need to soend 30 seconds a day saying a paragraph because your better than that. </p>
<p>Man if only your grandpa was at normandy...</p>
<p>I am such an American that I don't need a pledge to show support. I show my love for this country through my ACTIONS, not through WORDS.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Man if only your grandpa was at normandy...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's funny you said that, because the people fighting at normandy were fighting to defend our rights from the nazis! Our rights which included our freedom of expression and freedom of speech. You need to learn our history and not just follow what others do.</p>
<p>what actions are those? Burning your draft card? Ya know, the kid in the new texas chainsaw massacre burned his card. Needless to say, leatherface's daddy didnt like that too much</p>
<p>Most americans show our suppourt through actions as well as words.
Honestly you are so fricking unamerican is unbelivable. Say the damn paragraph or go hang out in China for all i care. Yes, we faught the nazi's to protect our rights AND our nation. Now who fought for our nation ? American soldeirs? And what happened to so many of them? They died or were injured for the rest of their life. And to commerate them you wont even say a sentance. You are an insult to american and should leave this great nation before my idiots like you show up.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Honestly you are so fricking unamerican is unbelivable.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How am I unamerican? One way? Not saying a pledge...something probably 80% of people don't do every day...means nothing. You are making the assumption that the ideals are represented in this paragraph...it's not!</p>
<p>This country is based on, is represented by, our constitution, our bill of rights, and freedoms. SOmething both of you are completely neglecting. </p>
<p>Yet, you still haven't told me how suggesting someone must leave for not saying a pledge isn't unamerican!</p>
<p>Small </p>
<p>We say the constitution in school so we grow up to be patriotic americans. We dont want compleate ati americans while we dont want people like zipdrive who will be immature to make a point. We want americans to be able to say they are proud of their country every morning. If the rest of the school is saying the pledge, why not say the pledge? At a baseball game they ask you to rise while the national anthem is sung. Do you just sit there and pretend nothing is happening? Come on smallz. Its not a big deal and your being a baby by not saying it. How? Your like the little child that wants his way, just to spite another child, most often a sibling.</p>
<p>Again someone not willing to say a paragraph saying they are allies to our nation shouldnt be here because they obviously dont love this nation enough to say it.
Also please read what i say closely. They dont HAVE to leave but they SHOULD leave as they must not like this country anyway.</p>
<p>mtf give up. It angers him much more when you post pointless crap, like the stuff I post :)</p>
<p>But see, this is the thing. You are making a personal attack on me. I am defending someone's right to say and not say what they please, whether or not it applies to me. You're making the automatic assumption that I am automatically unamerican because I don't say it. One, when I go to a baseball game I certainly raise a cap the pledge, and when I was in elementary school I said the pledge, but this isn't about me or you or zip or anyone...and that's the point</p>
<p>It is about anyone's right to say or not say whatever they want and not have them be attacked for doing it. And suggesting that they should leave is saying that they are unamerican, when, if you think of it, it makes them completely american: if this wasn't america, they would be forced to say, this country doesn't force you to do much of anything (except taxes!) in the terms of speech.</p>
<p>It has become so irrevocably Politically Correct to have to say the pledge that now people take it as an insult when it isn't said. You don't prove your patriotism by saying one sentence, nor two, nor several songs in a row. You show your patriotism by expressing the rights that this country gave you, by doing what your country let's you do. If we don't, then this is no different then fascist or communist-dictatorship. </p>
<p>And more lightly, debating with you is much more 'fun' (not quite the word I mean) than with Zip, because as you noted he just yells and ridicules. I certainly understand your point...and I think it is wrong, just as you hopefully now understand my point, though you too think it's wrong. That is a good debate. Not slander and calling someone an idiot. </p>
<p>So thank you.</p>
<p>mtf, I definitely see where you're coming from, but I think there are valid reasons to disagree with the pledge. I know you haven't read the whole thread, so I'll repost what I said earlier, although I feel like trash for quoting myself. </p>
<p>"I personally don't say the pledge because I think it's wrong to pledge one's allegiance to an arbitrary, man-made entity, that can (and has been) grossly wrong. I'd much rather pledge allegiance to freedom, liberty, human rights, the qualities that make any nation, including the United States, great."</p>
<p>I think the United States is a great country. I really do. But not because it is the United States, not because of its flag, but because of the principles that make up its base. I think the nicest thing said in this thread was this:
This country has everything it has in exchange for immense sacrifices, and debating the triviality of not saying the Pledge of Allegiance is goofy - as long as you pay taxes and vote, you're doing your minimal duty, and those are of far greater significance than an oral pledge.</p>
<p>And pledging allegiance to a flag per se is also in my opinion ridiculous - I would be much happier if we pledge allegiance to the Constitution every morning rather than a flag.
</p>
<p>This thread is dying, and I cant let that happen. So......BUMP</p>
<p>zipdrivekid - saying the pledge of allegiance is not against anyones rights</p>
<p>Being FORCED to say the pledge of allegiance is.</p>