<p>i think this thread should die it has become boring</p>
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How? Your like the little child that wants his way, just to spite another child, most often a sibling.
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I should remind that all story of American was in style 'child wants his way'. Study the history of America if you want to consider yourself an American.</p>
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i think this thread should die it has become boring
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it would have died a really long time ago if you didn't keep bringing it back just to argue with certain people...</p>
<p>This is America</p>
<p>Love it or Leave it.</p>
<p>You not standing up for the pledge of allegiance, is disrespectful and you should be ashamed of yourself, as you are stealing what others have fought so hard to produce.</p>
<p>Sick kids.</p>
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Love it or Leave it.
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it's funny that you say thate, because the whole point of this country is that you can say or not say whatever you want, and not be persecuted. if you want an American where if you don't say the pledge you should be forced to leave, maybe you, UB-vinny77 should go to North Korea and suggest they change the name to america.</p>
<p>I stand up for the plege and the national anthem whenever I hear it playing, but make no mistake, I would defend to the death someone's right not to say it, because that is what America is based on. So how dare you call me unamerican.</p>
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it's funny that you say that, because the whole point of this country is that you can say or not say whatever you want, and not be persecuted. if you want an American where if you don't say the pledge you should be forced to leave, maybe you, UB-vinny77 should go to North Korea and suggest they change the name to America.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well you actually are supposed to say it, though you don't have to. The point in which you suggested is not the one I am making, The point I am making is that you should all be great full for the lives that the country of America has given you and your Families. If you don't feel that America has given you anything that North Korea or Afghanistan could not, then you should leave America. If you don't have any respect or are greatfull to a country that has given you everything that you have, then you should get the **** out. The people who don't stand are the same fags that would run if there was a Draft. All you people want is to Take Take Take, But you never want to give.</p>
<p>Love it or Leave it.</p>
<p>
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Well you actually are supposed to say it, though you don't have to. The point in which you suggested is not the one I am making, The point I am making is that you should all be great full for the lives that the country of America has given you and your Families. If you don't feel that America has given you anything that North Korea or Afghanistan could not, then you should leave America.
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</p>
<p>But why are you making the assumption that those who don't say the pledge are ungreatful? In your words, you mean that those who don't say the pledge are ungrateful, and all those who are ungrateful should leave america. So, you must infer that you think all those who don't say the pledge must leave. </p>
<p>If not, re-word your phrasing.</p>
<p>I think that all that are ungrateful for America should get the Hell out, why stay if America does nothing for you. You can easily leave in other places in the world much cheaper. All that are Greatfull for America, Like Myself, will stand during the pledge of allegiance, and any other patriotic songs. We do because we are proud of our country. There is No reason why somebody who is greatful & proud would not stand for the pledge of allegiance. again if you are not proud not greatfull, then get out and go to someplace that is. Stop taking American resources, go better some other place.</p>
<p>Good, so your admitting that you think whoever doesn't say the pledge should leave. Fine. I got it. </p>
<p>How unamerican of you.</p>
<p>Haha, the Americaphiliacs in this thread make me laugh. I am really thankful that I live in America, but to pretend that it's perfect and to glorify it all the time, including saying a pledge every morning before we even know what the hell "pledge" or "allegiance" mean, is indeed ridiculous. Also, the notion of "anti-americanism" is also stupid. There is no other free, democratic, first world country where that kind of term is tossed around so frequently or with any meaning at all. Ever heard of Anti-Britainism? Anti-Germanism? Anti-Francism? Anti-Australianism? Anti-Canadianism? No? That's because this is the only country where people feel so strongly obliged to repeat over and over how much they love their country.</p>
<p>One should support their country and take pride in it, but all this stuff about being more American and saying the pledge every morning is a bit unnecessary.</p>
<p>Besides that, I never said the pledge starting in high school (though I did stand for it of course) for several other reasons. One: Partly for religious reasons, partly for my own reasons and sense, I will not pledge my allegiance to an inanimate object, such as a flag. It doesn't matter that this flag represents "America". I will not pledge my allegiance to a country like an automaton either. I do like America because it is arguably the best place to live in the world. It gave my parents opportunity, and now it has plenty in store for me. However, if it began doing things I disliked, I wouldn't be so quick to "pledge my allegiance", would I? I will like America so long as it remains a place where the good outweighs the bad. In other words, I will support it and contribute to it, until or unless it does something I strongly disagree with that outweighs all of its pros.</p>
<p>Secondly, the pledge is a bunch of ideals that America most certainly does not uphold. "One Nation," perhaps, but certainly not indivisible (especially when politicians seem to push divisions further), and certainly without "liberty and justice for all". That's a pretty lofty ideal, and you don't have to look farther than most news channels or America's history to know that it is not true.</p>
<p>Well said.</p>
<p>Not well said.</p>
<p>Very well said!</p>
<p>If you don't like it then leave.. You people are nut jobs, such as Leal if your scared for your life and you think The United states government killed thousands of American citizens, then please leave. Go to another country where you feel safer.</p>
<p>GoldShadow you are indeed wrong in saying others in other countries are not anti-country like some are in America. You are in America and the History and topics you learn are based on America. Go study in another country, the history lessons are based on their country. </p>
<p>Why is saying the pledge unnecessary, it is something every American citizen should want to do. It is a oath of allegiance to the United States of America. This oath is of Loyalty and Obligation to America for all it gives us. Again like I have said in my other posts, if you don't feel loyal or have any obligations to America then you have no reason to be here.</p>
<p>The Real Problem is you kids take America for Granted. You only accept the good and what works best for you.</p>
<p>You kids are the same that would dodge the draft if there was one. In which I really hope there is one to set you *******s straight.</p>
<p>I concur with Goldshadown on absolutely all fronts. The pledge is a ridiculous, superfluous sham of an action that by no means represents what UB-Vinny apparently considers to be "true" loyalty. Loyalty to a country generally involves the improvement of oneself for the sake of everyone - becoming a doctor to improve the health of a country, becoming a lawyer to uphold and improve upon its standards of justice, rather than spouting off the same phrase publically each morning like zombies. Honestly, the most productive and progressive form of patriotism is having standards for your country and adhering to them, and demonstrating discontent when they are not met - by, for example, refusing to say the pledge. I will not stand in support of something (an administration, an ideal, what*ever*) that I believe to be detrimental to the quality of this nation and that deviates so sharply from the higher principles that it began with - and I think that's absolutely reasonable.</p>
<p>Re: under god, it's sad and ostracizing, and I don't think people have the right to judge on that until they're forced to pledge to something they don't believe in. It's so sick and dehumanizing, especially in a secular nation. There's that.</p>
<p>And no, I'm not leaving - for one, I'm a minor, and two, we have the best private universities - note the private, as in not government sponsored, as in the work of individuals rather than the embarrassingly inept department of education.</p>
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It is a oath of allegiance to the United States of America. This oath is of Loyalty and Obligation to America for all it gives us.
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</p>
<p>Actually, it's an oath to an arbitrary flag. Something that, when you think of it, doesn't represent our country at all. As I, as well as others have said, this country is represented by it's constitution, liberties, and rights. We should pledge allegiance to the constituion, something that really represents Americans. </p>
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You kids are the same that would dodge the draft if there was one. In which I really hope there is one to set you *******s straight.
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</p>
<p>If there was a draft, and I was chosen, I would gladly give my life for this country's basis of ideals, as I have said before. I would give my life in the name of freedom of speech, and all our constitution-given rights we share. Especially your right to say all the things you have said on this board. but I would not give my life for a flag, which, if you have any real understanding of our country at all, means nothing to anyone. </p>
<p>An again I say, your thoughts are clear: you think that those who don't say the pledge should leave america. That goes completeley against what our nation, constitution, and Bill of rights (extension of constituion) declare. So again I say, it is you who is Unamerican.</p>
<p>Congratulations, smallz! You have now earned my "respect" for the time being. Saying that you would fight in a draft is enough to get me off your a$$. Now you can be like uclari and brand182 (although I always liked brand182).</p>
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An again I say, your thoughts are clear: you think that those who don't say the pledge should leave america. That goes completeley against what our nation, constitution, and Bill of rights (extension of constituion) declare. So again I say, it is you who is Unamerican.
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Where is the "Signature" form so that I can sign up under your phrase?</p>
<p>"And what issue is that? That reciting a a couple lines makes you some great american? Please. Grow up."</p>
<p>LOL</p>
<p>"OMG AGAIN WITH THE CLOSED MINDED LIBERAL TRASH. WHY DO LIBERALS ALWAYS THINK CONSERVATIVES ARE CLOSE MINDED?! hey hows this for close minded im gay!!!! yeah bet you dont have a comeback for that do ya?!"</p>
<p>haha, you're a genius.</p>
<p>"The Pledge is recited every day in our second period (a new NC law this year), but I don't participate because I don't believe it should have "under God" in it."</p>
<p>hehe.. the pledge was originally written to help heal the nation, then later the flag of the usa part was added due to irish etc. immigrants, then "under God" was added simply to spite the USSR, who, under the communist regime, had atheism *-)</p>
<p>"i dont like the color green"</p>
<p>then don't make your pledge to the flag of libya. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Libya.svg%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Libya.svg</a></p>
<p>"The U.S. was founded on Christian beliefs. The vast majority of U.S. citizens are Christian. If you don't like the "Under God" in the pledge, and "In God We Trust" on our money, then get over it."</p>
<p>no it wasn't. i could cite dozens of quotes, but how about the treaty of tripoli for starters? 'As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion'</p>
<p>also, don't say that the original article 11 (where this quote came from) was gibberish, etc., because the one SIGNED had said quote in it.</p>
<p>"Oh dont you dare pose any philosophical questions to me you dirty, dirty, liberal you!"</p>
<p>ROFL</p>
<p>"I have one word of advice for people trying to have a serious debate with zipdrivekid...</p>
<p>You can't reason with a lunatic."</p>
<p>don't get so involved with it. this is my first time reading this thread and i find his replies hilarious, LOL</p>
<p>"Imagine that--PERSONAL morality."</p>
<p>morals are for the 20th century.</p>
<p>"...But back to my point, do you guys even LIKE the US? IF you like the US, dont you WANT to say the pledge?? Why would you not want to say the pledge to a country that is, imo, awesome as hell? Is it really asking too much of you to say a few lines? Nobody is forcing you, and dont you at least have enough character to show respect towards America, your homeland?"</p>
<p>the pledge is the ultimate embodiment of this nation? some statement a guy wrote in a magazine after the civil war that's now been added to as political moves? also, america is a good place. not the best place. not the freest place. would you rather have people helping move the country in the right direction or waking up every day, wasting the days, yet saying the pledge?</p>
<p>"Give me one VALID reason why you should not say the pledge ?"</p>
<p>because it doesn't mean anything.</p>
<p>"Most americans show our suppourt through actions as well as words.
Honestly you are so fricking unamerican is unbelivable. Say the damn paragraph or go hang out in China for all i care. Yes, we faught the nazi's to protect our rights AND our nation. Now who fought for our nation ? American soldeirs? And what happened to so many of them? They died or were injured for the rest of their life. And to commerate them you wont even say a sentance. You are an insult to american and should leave this great nation before my idiots like you show up."</p>
<p>hahahaha what a joke. yeah we're clearly unamerican because we don't wanna say the pledge written by some rube. clear disrespect of our distant comrades. ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>"Wow ok I have to say something. Being a "liberal" is one thing. Being a freaking hippie who thinks being "forced" to say the pledge is a violation of their "rights" is something completely else. What is wrong with you?! Youre a brat ya know? You live in the US where you can go to your fancy prep high schools and apply to your 40K/year ivy league colleges. And at the end of the day, you come home, get on your laptop that your parents got you and complain about how youre forced to say the pledge.....you have issues. This country has given you EVERYTHING and you can't even find enough courtesy to say a few freaking lines in the morning?! Ya know, this isnt even about rights, this is about whether you are able to respect the US and what it stands for. Like I said, there is a fine line between being a liberal and being a whiny little b!tch."</p>
<p>wayne. the fact is, the pledge doesn't mean anything to those of us who don't care to say it. it means no more to me than saying a blessing over shabbat dinner. I don't believe in god, I don't believe the pledge means anything, and I don't believe in judaism. and we're not forced by law to say the pledge. therefore, being forced to WOULD be a violation of our rights. furthermore, if we did that and actually sent people off to north korea for not saying the pledge, we would BE LIKE NORTH KOREA.</p>