<p>We visited a woderful liberal arts school yesterday -- she said she could see herself attending there - but really feels she needs a more prestigious school. She knows she will be going into a graduate program - poss. med school . What make a school prestigious? If you do very well at any accredited college - isn't that enough to get into grad school?</p>
<p>What does your daughter consider prestigious? You mentioned on another thread that she is a National Merit Finalist from a competive private school so these kids generally know what they want. She should be looking at a good mixture of schools including some where she will receive scholarship money. </p>
<p>To answer your question about going to any accredited college and being prepared for the challeges that lie ahead, such as med school or competitive grad programs than I would ask you what are the accredited schools you are looking at? If your daughter is very bright than I would think she might be happier at a school where she is studying with her peers. That is what fit is all about. I think that really bright kids need to be with other really bright kids and that is not to say that bright kids can’t be found at less rigorous schools but the more rigorous schools will only have bright kids. </p>
<p>When you visit schools with your daughter spend some time in the eating facilities where conversations could be over heard. Walk the campus and observe what you hear and see. This is often more helpful than a campus tour to really get the idea if you could see yourself at a campus.</p>
<p>If she wants to go to med school, she should go where she can get the highest GPA and the most attention from professors. If she stands out more at a less competitive school, she might get better/more personal recommendations, more research opportunities.</p>
<p>^Of course if she’s going to grad school in science personal recommendations from people who are known in the field can be helpful. It’s a bit of a dance I think, finding a school with enough students who are your peers intellectually, but where you are still confident that you will do well (especially if med school is in your sights.) </p>
<p>For med school undergrad degree probably makes less difference, but grad school admissions are usually done by committees of professors and they are definitely influenced by whether or not they have heard of the undergrad college. (DH regularly reviews MD/PHd candidates though not straight MD candidates at a med school.) He also cares very much about whether you’ve done research and whether you understand what you were working on. (A surprising number of students don’t really seem to.)</p>
<p>It would probably help if you put up some schools she/you are considering for comparison. Also, most schools have honors programs, so if she is looking for a group of intellectual peers, there are options for that.</p>
<p>Of course you can be admitted to med school from anywhere, but what your D might be saying is that in additional to academic credentials, she wants the growth that would come from participation in a peer group with intellectual abilities and work ethics that are similar to her own. And I would agree that that’s a very legitimate consideration.</p>
<p>I agree with gadad, it may be less about prestige for your daughter and more about finding a place that she thinksi s really academically challenging and what she wants intellectually. Also, I know when I was looking for colleges I specifically targeted schools that had been around a long time (at least 100 years) and had a history of producing alums who went on to excellence in their fields. I also wanted to go some place with established traditions and strong heritage, where I could be a part of a legacy rather than just a student for four years.</p>
<p>For my kids they didn’t care how prestigous the school is … however they did care about the % of students that are their intellectual peers (or stonger or weaker). As far as grad schools / jobs go I wouldn’t think twice about any of the schools in the top 25 or so research universities or top 25 LACs … they are all terrific schools at which your daughter could 1) get a great education and 2) position herself for grad school / jobs. As others have mentioned for kids thinking of Med school GPAs are VERY important so going to a top-top school that also grades relatively toughly might not be the best strategic move</p>
<p>Thanks for all the feed back – you guys ROCK!
Her reach school is Yale , she is also looking at Vanderbilt, Xavier, Kenyon, Centre, Bellermine, Case Western, Thomas More and Hanover-- may increase</p>
<p>Hanover wwas the school we visied yesterday–total student population is about 1,000 – It was a woderful school – class sizes were 12-18 students-- she sat in on a class – No honors college- concerns that they have all that she would be looking for – wants to do research esp in human genes. (Admission counselor thought that would be no problem) wants to prepare for possible med school( they do have a cadaver lab) – she loved it but wants something more prestigious-- that comment threw me for a loop - because I don’t think many on her list as pretigious - should we drop those - and look at others-- this is much harder than I thought it would be!</p>
<p>Mom2424: my D was a NMF last year and about this time she started wondering if she needed to add a “more prestigious” school. I was fine with her applying wherever as long as she had a realistic idea of the admissions chances and financial reality. After talking things through, she realized there was a lot of chatter amongst her peers and she was getting a lot of “aren’t you applying anyplace better?” type comments. She had been and was still happy with her original list and decided not to add Yale. So the senior chatter might be a factor in your D’s comment.</p>
<p>That’s a really huge range of schools. The difference between Hanover – whose 75-25 range on SAT verbal is 600-490, which promotes its Business program, and where 80% of the faculty has a PhD “or other terminal degree” – and Yale, or even Vanderbilt, is pretty great. In general, I would pooh-pooh the notion that any student needs a “more prestigious” school. But in this case the institutions are serving such different markets – students, faculty, geography – that I think it’s fair for a student to question whether she belongs in the Hanover market even if she can appreciate what a great place it is.</p>
<p>JHS is totally right on. He knows of what he speaks, OP: trust him.</p>
<p>Mom2424: My son felt the same way, because he had the big SAT/GPA/AP numbers. He applied to 11 schools, got into six. (I had him fit the bill for one half of the cost of all apps, too) The six that offered him admission were excellent schools. </p>
<p>In the end, he selected a National Merit offer (he goes to the same school as RobD’s daughter). Why? Well, he wants to go to grad or law school. He wants to graduate from those first four years without debt. Sometimes, the best opportunities come from schools that one does not think are so prestigious.</p>
<p>^^ I totally agree. My son also took an excellent National Merit offer at a lower tier yet exceptional school and is loving it. One of the things that helps is that he is part of an excellent honors programs. And like “Momreads” d/s, he will graduate with very little debt.</p>
<p>It is not “prestige” but what makes a school prestigious. If Yale is a realistic reach (both academically for her and financially for your family) then I can understand why she would want to go there over Hanover.</p>
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<p>The purpose of college is not to get into grad school.</p>
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<p>For some people, this is one goal. And I see nothing wrong with that.</p>
<p>For others, one goal is to obtain a job in their career field immediately after graduation. Companies that participate in on-campus recruiting often focus their efforts on top colleges – either those that are highly ranked in general or those with highly respected programs in the specific fields for which they are recruiting. The chances of getting a good entry-level job through on-campus recruiting are higher if you attend one of these schools.</p>
<p>Does prestige matter? For students who hope to obtain a first-rate job through on-campus recruiting, you bet it does.</p>
<p>"I wouldn’t think twice about any of the schools in the top 25 or so research universities or top 25 LACs … they are all terrific schools "</p>
<p>3togo, are you sure you’re not being a bit extreme in your guidelines? Especially for something as generic as pre-med, I would think it would be tough to go wrong with any of the top 100 national universities or the top 50 liberal arts colleges.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s necessarily a question of Yale vs. Hanover. Of course, I understand if a kid prefers Yale to Hanover, but the OP’s daughter hasn’t been accepted at Yale, and may never be, even if she is a perfectly legitimate candidate there (like most rejected applicants to Yale). The question is more does she want to go someplace where other students who like Yale will go in reasonable numbers? </p>
<p>That could be Yale, it could be Vanderbilt or Case Western, it could be Alabama’s Honors Program, or Ohio State’s, or Indiana’s. It could be Grinnell or Oberlin or Kenyon or New College of Florida or Rhodes. It could be public or private, urban or rural, large or small, expensive or cheap, depending on what matters most to the OP’s daughter. It could be lots and lots of places, some of which are on her list. I’m just not sure Hanover makes it under that largish tent. </p>
<p>Which of course does NOT mean that there’s anything wrong with Hanover. It’s just that to me it registers as being designed to educate a less ambitious, less sophisticated, less diverse, more local tranche of young adults. I know some really impressive, successful people who went to colleges just like that – but for the most part they didn’t know that they wanted to be as impressive and successful as they are when they started college, and/or their families’ vision of what they might accomplish was unrealistically limited. None of them said “Oh, I’ll go to this local fourth-tier college because I’ll shine there and anyway my prestigious graduate school will matter more.” (It was more like “Oh, it’s close to home and the coach wants me on the team! And it’s COLLEGE!”)</p>
<p>When May 1 rolls around, if Hanover is the only place the OP’s daughter can afford without going deep into debt – it’s meaningfully and admirably less expensive than many other colleges – then she should absolutely go there, and going there won’t be a death sentence for her dreams, or anything close to that. But if she’s the kind of student who has a legitimate shot at Yale, and she does a little homework, she will certainly be able to develop other affordable options that are more mainstream-academic than Hanover (and hence also more “prestigious”).</p>
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<p>I agree with you … but that is using my value system … where any of the 150 or so schools would provide a fine undergraduate education for top students … (and other schools could also but more of the process would be on the student’s back). When I mentioned 25 and 25 I was reading into the student’s comment about prestige and trying to find where intellectually they would pretty much be among peers. Lower down there will be a fair number of top students and many-many fine students but this student would likely end up being a big fish in the pond … which is quite reasonable; especiallly for a pre-med student looking for good grades … but it doesn’t sound like the OP’s child wants to big a relatively big fish in the pond … so I shrunk the school set.</p>
<p>I’ve been through this process 1 3/4 times so far … and my two kids had very different desires on how they wanted to fit in the pond … and, IMO, very self-aware and reasonable desires … and these desires shaped their lists. To me where a student fits in the pond is yet another element of fit.</p>
<p>We had a spate of med school graduations this past year among our friends. Kids went to all kinds of undergrads from one Ivy, UofM the flagship, one a directional public never ever mentioned on these forums and one a decent private midwest LAC. Today they are all docs. I think that really says it all. It’s about the kid not so much the undergrad. You’ll never go wrong with a flagship or a good LAC but you can also do it with just about any background if the student is a good student.</p>