<p>My daughter is considering applying early to a top-ranked, mid-sized university. Because of a strong legacy and other considerations, she might be admitted, though her scores and grades are on the low side for this institution. I think the school is wonderful, but I believe this particular child would thrive at a smaller, liberal arts school. She has seen many such LACs she liked, but she attends a competitive private high school and I think shes being blinded by the prestige factor.</p>
<p>There are those who say you should go to the best school you can. Throwing around these terms and rankings is driving me nuts. In this case, Im afraid the best is not the best fit.</p>
<p>Not at all. There are certain schools that are "sweatshops" and a student who is not highly motivated, directed and willing to work very hard is going to have a tough time at those places. However, ironically, some of the most selective schools are not so stressful. The hardest part about some of them is getting in. Also there are non selective schools that are very rigorous academically, notably the ITs.</p>
<p>While there ARE those that say you should go to the "best" school that you can, some of us, including myself and my kids, wanted to go to the school they LIKED the best. My children wanted to go to a "good" school but they didn't "rank" their choices in order of "prestige" but their list of most favorite to least favorite were in order of which they liked the most to least. I can't imagine doing it otherwise. If your D truly likes that school best, no problem, but if she feels pressured to pick it because it is perceived as a "better" school, it is not worth it. It could turn out that she picks the most prestigious school on her list to enrolll, but that should only be because after scrutinizing each aspect of the school and all that stuff, that this school is the one she really likes best.</p>
<p>When you say "best", it sounds like you mean the most challenging. If that's the case then I agree with you. My son was not especially motivated in HS and we were very concerned with him attending a college where his stats were on the low end of accepted students versus attending one where his stats were right in line with the avg. accepted student. </p>
<p>What we found was that academics are a big part of the puzzle but not the be all, end all. My kids applied to a range of schools, revisited (and visited two that were applied to sight unseen) the top choices after acceptances and then made the decision based on gut feelings and much angst. A good book to read is Harvard Schmarvard that touches on fit.</p>
<p>You don't need any advice. You have it exactly right. My son has the grades, scores and ECs to get actively recruited by and be admitted to most of the "elite" universities outside, say, the top fifteen or so. We don't care. It's obvious to us and to him that he would fit better at other places. Don't be blinded or intimidated by all the rankings nonsense. Give your daughter the best advice you can. Tell her what you believe.</p>
<p>what would you consider a selective but non stressful school? </p>
<p>IvoryK, I give you a big pat on the back for thinking about what is best for your child rather than only taking the "prestige" factor into consideration. I hope you find the combination that is best for your child.</p>
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She has seen many such LACs she liked, but she attends a competitive private high school and I think she’s being blinded by the prestige factor.
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<p>She should apply to a range of schools and make up her mind in Aprl; she may change her tune by then. A lot of terrific students are far better off in LACs, and some of them are every bit as good as the "prestigious mid-sized universisites." Some may even be better, especially in specific areas.</p>
<p>You already know the answer. Encourage your daughter to attend the school that is the 'best fit' for HER. Forget about rankings.</p>
<p>My son's best friend went to Rice because his dad decided that was where he should go. The kid followed blindly along, then bombed out. Now he can't get admitted anywhere except the local cc. He would have been better off at a 'better fit' school and suceeding.</p>
<p>You daughter might very well thrive anywhere, but why risk it? If you are feeling that another school is a better fit for her, trust your maternal instinct.</p>
<p>I have had this with a few of my kids. My first child is a very intense, quiet sort who I didn’t think would fit at all in one of her choices. My second is an intense competitive sort who I fear will become like his peers (i.e. lose his soul?) at his hoped for choice. But you know what I do? I get behind these folks because they know what they want and hey, they gotta make these choices and go for them while there is still time.</p>
<p>I have kinda learned the hard way that we parents in these cases need to begin shifting to counselor mode. So I think it is best to gather as much data as you can so that you can present a calm and very well-reasoned argument supporting why you think the school is not a good fit. Talk to your daughter as a friend would. I mean, be really clinical about the thing, but let the kid know you are just being a counselor, and that you will love and support her every step of the way.</p>
<p>If your kid rejects your argument, well, you have done your part. Don’t let this thing get all emotional and weird. After all, we are talking about schools here, not fiancés or anything like it. After the rejection, just say “okay. Now I am right behind you getting into this WRONG school – LOL”. Just kidding. Put aside your differences and then start trying to find good things about the school. Yeah, keep your ears peeled for any truly weird things that might jump up and threaten your kid. But that sorta thing is so rare, you likely would see nothing. I say, get behind your young scholar and be glad she knows what she is hunting for.</p>
<p>Also, focus on the overnight visits (after applying to a range of schools like Marite says) and let her figure out which school "fits" in her gut. My kids were not aware of any rankings though certainly they've heard of which schools are well known, etc. One of my kids, after all her acceptances were in hand, narrowed them down to revisit in April for accepted student events to help her decide. Unlike those who care about prestige, she chose to revisit Smith, Tufts, and Brown and knocked off Penn where she also was accepted. She did end up choosing Brown because it fit more things she wanted but she very very strongly considered attending Tufts or Smith, and I could see her conceivably picking Tufts over Brown and Penn because Tufts was one of her favorite first choices from the get go. Her favorites were not ordered in terms of rankings. She also has never seen rankings. She also did not go to a school like your child's school where there is discussion and pressure over such choices.</p>
<p>I also did not influence my kids as to where to apply or where to enroll. The choices were completely their own. I facilitated the process and I listened to their lists of pros/cons on each school and I was involved, but I didn't care which school they chose as long as they wanted to attend and had thought it through completely. They truly did explore their options thoroughly.</p>
<p>EDIT: I did not read Drossel's great post befor I posted my thoughts. I agree that you can bring up some questions about the school....like "have you thought about X with this school?" "how does that compare to X at such and such school". You can probe and facilitate the exploration process but I would not discourage schools. It really is THEIR process and their life. Also, I think if you dig in and say not to go to a certain school, they may want it even more, lol.</p>
<p>Yeah. And another thing - we very likely could be completely wrong in how we view these schools. I think if we see something, well, we can mention it, but we really may be completely off-base. So, be proud to see your kid analyzing information available to her, and then taking freedom to really make her choice. I know at this stage it may seem like a hard thing to do, but I think you'll be pretty pleased when you see the girl taking charge and doing her thing, even if it runs contrary to your ideas.</p>
<p>I don't wanna come off as some great dad sort here. Again, I am talking from the point of view of someone who made bad choices starting out in this college stuff and who is now (I think) doing it right. In other words, I have done both the bad stuff (nagging the Dickens outta my kid, even after she rejected my ideas), and the good stuff (apologizing and then really supporting her despite my own views). The good stuff has worked very well for us. That bad stuff ain' worth beans.</p>
<p>Ivory, I would strongly encourage/counsel my D to separate HER feelings from what she is hearing around her. It sounds as if a lot of the pressure is coming from her environment. My counsel would be for her do what feels right for her. Listen to reasonable advice, but don't give too much weight to the advice of the people, her peers, who may actually have the least amount of experience or knowledge. Yes, it will hurt when some insensitive, doofus classmate says "You want to go WHERE??" but, as you well know, in a very few months she will separate from these kids and never see most of them again - who cares what they think.</p>
<p>Cangel, that is terrific advice for a kid in the situation as the OP's daughter where the pressure of where to attend is coming from the peer group in her school. Admittedly, we had NONE of that here but I understand this completely and in fact, such situations are chronicled in the new book by Robbins (The Overachievers). So, your advice of what to say to the child about that aspect is spot on. And also how these kids' advice or influence will matter NOT once her child gets to college.</p>
<p>Can you have your D overnight at a few schools to get the feel for them? The "feel" even at certain Ivies (Brown, Dartmouth, Penn) may be more relaxed than it is at certain LACs (Swarthmore, Reed).</p>
<p>BTW: Don't assume a top LAC is any 'easier' or less stressful than wherever she's currently aiming. </p>
<p>I attended an Ivy, was an honors English Lit major; my D is at a top LAC. She emailed me one of her English papers last year because she was particularly proud of it. I thought it was excellent & would get an A. It got a B+. Evidently her school-- not generally regarded as a pressure cooker-- does have a reputation for grade deflation.</p>
<p>The LAC advantage of small class sizes & personal attention is also quite replicable at the right mid-size schools. I'd say anything smaller than about 6,000 kids will have a large number of small classes.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. My real concern at this point is that she wants to apply early. We are doing an overnight at another smaller school, then at her first choice, both before she needs to make the early decision deadline. I hope that will help her get a better sense of her options. Unfortunately, I do think an early application would greatly improve her shot of being admitted to this institution.</p>
<p>My sense that a LAC would be better for her has nothing to do with academic rigor. I, too, think LACs are frequently more intense academically. I just think she would engage more in the process in smaller classes, as she takes in information best by discussion, rather than reading or lectures.</p>
<p>Again, thank you all. It's an interesting discussion. It often feels like I'm swimming against the current...</p>
<p>The real issue here, that only a few posters touched on, is how to deal with college peer pressure. My answer: good luck! When a kid has gone to a private school where being admitted to a top school is the prize, how on earth do you convince them that it isn't? It's about as bad as it gets for these kids to report they're going to college ranked 35 in April. Add in the family legacy, mom, dad, grandparents attending top schools and it becomes the family norm. How do you fight this?</p>
<p>I admire the OP as most parents I know facing this kiss the ground they have a strong legacy and push the kids into the school they really isn't right for them.</p>
<p>Because your D goes to a top private school, my guess is that her school community consists of where a majority apply EARLY somewhere. I think there is this pressure to apply early in school communities like yours when applying early doesn't necessarily make sense for many kids like yours. Applying early should only be if she has a CLEAR CUT first choice that she'd have had by now. Having to decide on a school for ED is not really what it should be about. She should apply to many schools, have some favorites, and visit each in depth including overnights, and pick among her options in spring. There is no need to have to decide where to apply ED now. ED is really more for if you already know based on thorough scrutiny ahead of time, which ideally should have included visits to most schools on the list in order to make such a firm determination. While I understand that ED may give her a slight boost in her chances at the school, I don't think it is worth it because of the binding nature. I have had two children who were top students and they did not apply ED anywhere and they got into almost all of their schools, including very selective ones. </p>
<p>I think your D will do well in the RD round and the benefits will be that she may have options and can decide with more time and with more in depth comparisons rather than being forced to decide this month. By forced, I don't mean by YOU, but by the pressure to apply EARLY SOME place.</p>
<p>By the way, I don't know what top ranked mid sized university you are talking about but inquire about the typical class sizes. Not all classes are large lectures at such schools. I went to Tufts and most of my classes were not large, only a few. None in my major were. I have a kid at Brown and one at NYU and not all their classes ae big either. Many are quite small. Many are medium sized. Only a couple are big. Most are not. If they have a big class, it has smaller sections for discussion. So, inquire about this aspect that you have said is an issue, at EACH school. Don't assume large classes, in other words. I don't know the school enough to say, but please ask current students about this issue.</p>
<p>Does your D's favorite offer a non-binding early action along with ED? That could be a compromise that would allow her to apply early somewhere, but not limit her choices.</p>
<p>I think you've gotten a lot of good advice here, most of which you didn't even need! I am learning (3rd time around) to try not to second guess my child on everything. We are both making compromises. She compromised by agreeing to find one school in state she'd be willing to add to her list. I am trying to guide her into understanding what she wants from school, without dictating anything. </p>
<p>The instate school she likes is Emory. She wanted further away, I wanted smaller. I thought she would be turned off by the requried PE classes (4). She is not athletic. She surprised me by being excited about it. "I've always wanted to try fencing!" "I'd love to play more tennis but I've never had enough time." I do see college to be the chance for my kids to become who they want to be, not who I want them to be. It's sure easier to say than to do.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if your D decides to apply ED to her favorite...which I take as a "reach"...and does not get in...she can deal with the decision early and move forward. Good luck...</p>