<p>Although I'm not Asian by any means, I have to agree with the OP. The comments about Asians not providing the 'intellectual environment colleges want' by the Vandy guy are an example of what's wrong with our educational system - the deprioritization of academic excellence in favour of non-academic endevours. Whether one volunteers to help poor people (in a Mesoamerican country?) or was popular/socially active enough to be elected class president has no bearing on whether he can discover the proverbial cure for cancer or otherwise be an intellectual contributor.</p>
<p>It is not deprioritization of academic excellence...the value of being able to communicate with others and affect change, in addition to being intelligent, increases the likelihood of not being constrained by the ivory tower. You can be brilliant, but if you cannot implement or explain your ideas--whether by choice or not--to the real world, how would you get funding for the cancer research? Even great minds often have to collaberate, since few people are so smart that thy can exist in both the theorhetical and real worlds. </p>
<p>Colleges are looking for an intellectual balance, for diversity, for social awareness. Boiling down a candidate to only numbers is to ignore other considerations. Unfortunately, selective college admissions is competitive. It is that competitiveness that drives people to make generalizations about ethnicity (for instance), and to insist that the process is unfair. Of course it's unfair, schools choose students who they feel will best suit their needs. Likewise, students sometimes focus on a small number of schools because they feel that the institution will best meet his/her wants, even if it is not a good fit.</p>
<p>The only way no one will feel slighted is if college admissions were not selective. But, then kids wouldn't care much about the status of a particular set of colleges, would they?</p>
<p>I'm part-Asian, and I did not have issues with how my colleges selected students, because I knew going in that it would be competitive. I was careful about my ECs, essays, and recs. I paid attention to my course load, made sure I was at least somewhat well rounded, and paid attention when people advised me to stand out--even if it meant going against my parents from time-to-time.</p>
<p>My admissions pattern was what I expected, although my first choice match college (EDI) waitlisted me, while a good chunk of my reach schools accepted me in the RD round. I'm not sure why this happend, but I'm pretty sure it was because I spent less time on the first app (ED), than the RD ones. I'm pretty sure it wasn't because there was an Asian quota system or discrimination based on ethnicity at work. According to this thread, I should be suspicious because others with lower scores got in, including other Asians.</p>
<p>It is apparently racist. Why would they even make these statistics if they are not intending to use it to justify their discrimination?</p>
<p>*****A 2005 study by Princeton sociologists Thomas J. Espenshade and Chang Y. Chung compared the effects of affirmative action on racial and special groups at three highly selective private research universities. The data from the study represent admissions disadvantage and advantage in terms of SAT points (on the old 1600-point scale):</p>
<p>Blacks: +230
Hispanics: +185
Asians: 50
No discrimination for whites**** </p>
<p>Hmmm, that data suggests nothing!</p>
<p>And how are the comments by those adcoms (and other various posters) not rascist? Textureless math grind?! They're just replacing the c word for chinese people. I'd say those adcoms are bourgeois wannabe sophisticated white boys who like to swirl and sniff stuffy wine, while they smell their socks after a long day of work. Oooops, that wasn't racist, was it? Well, perhaps we should remind the Vandy adcom of some southern history. Weren't blacks shot with water hoses and attacked with dogs just 50 years ago? Maybe I should draw some conclusions about white people from that.</p>
<p>Post #11 was brilliantly stated. I can't believe what some people say.</p>
<p>screw vanderbilt</p>
<p>The use of statistical measures is to quantify certain phenomenon and to be able to talk about the issues in a somewhat meaningful way. Our vocabulary is inadequate, since every word has a connotation, and it can mean very different things to different people.</p>
<p>The second we can all admit to ourselves we DO hold racist beliefs and stop being so sensitive and explosive when someone shares their own is when we can have real discussion about race. Lets stop tip-toe-ing around the subject.</p>
<p>If you don't like a stereotype, break it. Otherwise quit whining.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you don't like a stereotype, break it. Otherwise quit whining.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And just how should we break this stereotype? Start drinking before 21? Smoking before 18? Sex before marriage? What is it?</p>
<p>TourGuide446 - Way to read the thread there. The problem is that these admissions people are being prejudiced and are judging you by your race. They aren't looking to see what kind of person you REALLY are (Which is impossible for state universities where there are no interviews/letters of recommendations and what not). What if you DON'T fit the stereotype? They'll still assume you do because you are Asian. What if you DO fit the stereotype? Well, then they'll be correct in their assumption...but what if an hispanic (or someone of another race) fits the stereotype? They won't find out because that person isn't Asian. </p>
<p>Basically if you're Asian you're assumed to fit the stereotype. For all other races they don't assume it. If you fit the the stereotype and/or are Asian, then you're nailed. If you fit the stereotype and are another race, then nothing happens.</p>
<p>Even now on this forum many people assume that Asians are study machines, in which parents add fuel to the fire. Generalizations about race are being formulated whether we want to or not. I know things are not as bad as it seems, and a single comment by a single admissions officer cannot reflect the opinions of every college in the nation. Even still I could understand what colleges speak of when they refer to a Textureless math grind Asian. There's an Asian girl in the back of my math class, that has fabulous grades, but has never said a word to anyone(including the teacher) all this year.</p>
<p>I'm Asian and I can come to see why people would draw these conclusions. Some people really do fit the stereotype perfectly. Nobody had said that admissions people draw conclusions before they read the application. For all us Asians that believe they do not fit these descriptions, feel proud of yourselves. We may be the original diversity that the colleges are looking for.</p>
<p>Azure:</p>
<p>It's funny, but some in this forum assume that they are better qualified than other URM's...</p>
<p>These Asians ignore what other applicants are REALLY like as well, since the talk inevitably touches on statistical measures...</p>
<p>For URMs, people do make assumtions, and use statistical norms to justify that kind of thinking. Just look above.</p>
<p>You think that stereotypes of other groups does not affect how they are treated by society and by some kids here on CC? Are you sure?!</p>
<p>Suppose, for the sake of argument, that Asians' success comes from their parents. I don't understand why that's a bad thing. I mean, if people assume our parenting and heritage imbue values of hard work and pride in academics, then why wouldn't they also assume that those values and pride carry over into the rest of our lives and college? In fact, they do carry over. </p>
<p>And let's deviate from statistical measures for just a minute here. Assume again, for argument's sake, that Asians are superificial on the inside, and we lack "passion" or contain whatever the hell flaw of character you think we try to cover up with our academics. So what? Obviously, our Asian upbringings make up for that, as we are incredibly successful in the realm of academia. Maybe everyone else has more personality, but when all is said and done, we still manage to come up with some of the best results.</p>
<p>I'm not asking them to change the admissions policies in this case, but I DO think that they should, at least, admit to what they're doing</p>
<p>I'm not saying there shouldn't be URM's (I am against athletic recruitment at top universities, however), because a healthy balance should be maintained, but sometimes, colleges are too inconsistent, as someone mentioned in a previous post. This applies to science and math types in general - not just Asians. (I am still really puzzled as to why people like Eric Price are rejected). These inconsistencies may not matter too much on the grand scheme, but on an individual basis (which colleges claim to prize), they are devastating.</p>
<p>"You think that stereotypes of other groups does not affect how they are treated by society and by some kids here on CC? Are you sure?!"</p>
<p>IsleBoy - The matter here isn't how groups are treated due to their race by society and here. This topic concerns college admissions, so the stereotypes that play into effect outside of admissions are irrelevent (And it seems like you're pulling out the emotion/race card). </p>
<p>This thread is NOT about how stereotypes of others groups affect how they are treated in society, so don't go bringing that mess into here. But for your sake, Asians (particularly Indians/Middle Easterners) are ALSO heavily treated horribly in society due to stereotypes (Just as much as whatever other races you had in mind when you made that comment).</p>
<p>u guys gotta stop wasting time here posting "essays"
whats the point.
and all those who look on asians as overachieving nerds w/ no social life.
what kind of a life do u have spending most of ur freetime on CC? i've seen
couple of u racist folks' post numbers. in the hundreds and thousands. outrageous. U (u know who u are) needa get a life urself.</p>
<p>What's the point? Discussion, because this is a topic that interests some of us. It's obvious you aren't interested, and you've made that point loud and clear, so please leave and go find a dictionary to learn how to spell.</p>
<p>This forum provides a fine medium for us to discuss things that we are interested in, and you'd be hard-pressed to find an equivalent medium for such discussion outside of the internet. Also, having hundreds of post here doesn't mean you don't have a social life. It's very easy to get on here and post in your off time when you can't be out with friends and what not (Or if you feel like procrastinating from doing your homework :) ).</p>
<p>If the above was too much of an "essay" for you, I'll dumb it down for you in your language.</p>
<p>"LIEK OMGZ! GTFO TROLL!!11!!1!one"</p>
<p>********If the above was too much of an "essay" for you, I'll dumb it down for you in your language.</p>
<p>"LIEK OMGZ! GTFO TROLL!!11!!1!one"*********</p>
<p>Oh man, that was hilarious! xabi just got a capital owning! One of the better comebacks i've seen.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What's the point? Discussion, because this is a topic that interests some of us. It's obvious you aren't interested, and you've made that point loud and clear, so please leave and go find a dictionary to learn how to spell.</p>
<p>This forum provides a fine medium for us to discuss things that we are interested in, and you'd be hard-pressed to find an equivalent medium for such discussion outside of the internet. Also, having hundreds of post here doesn't mean you don't have a social life. It's very easy to get on here and post in your off time when you can't be out with friends and what not (Or if you feel like procrastinating from doing your homework ).</p>
<p>If the above was too much of an "essay" for you, I'll dumb it down for you in your language.</p>
<p>"LIEK OMGZ! GTFO TROLL!!11!!1!one"
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Nicely put.</p>
<p>Dear whiners: here's how to break the stereotype: play sports instead of math club; major in sociology, philosophy, or history instead of biology, chemistry or engineering; do some charity work instead of studying for the SATs since 7th grade; work at a job after school that will allow you to develop some personality instead of just some math skills; study drums instead of violin and piano; the main thing...listen to the adcoms' complaints: you all do the same f-ing things! Show some guts and dare to do something that every other Asian isn't doing. Everybody else's parents want them to be doctors and engineers too, but they have the guts to stand up to them.</p>
<p>TourGuide446 - What if you WANT to be an engineer? What if you WANT to major in math or science? Please don't perpetuate the stereotype as you are doing now. My parents don't know squat about school (They want me to go to a community college because it's cheap...) and I decided to become an engineer on my own. I've been SELF-motivated throughout my entire life.</p>
<p>You seem to be missing the point (People really need to start reading the actual thread before posting...). The problem is that we're being classified by our RACE, not if we are the stereotypical Asian or not. We aren't given the same opportunity as URMs because the second they see that we're Asian/Indian, they make assumptions...</p>