<p>I agree that if your kid is a math/science kid, a math/science magnet would probably be better. Is the IB program they are starting selective? In our county, one IB program is a magnet with selective admissions, which means that it essentially is a gifted program. My kids are in it, and I like it very much, but it is well-established, and there are trade-offs (the band/chorus problem, for example). For my son, who is graduating, we found that the AP/IB distinction made little difference, since the school he is attending really only gives credits if you want to accelerate, and he doesn’t.</p>
<p>Hunt, I believe that you and Counting Down and I are all talking about the same school (although my daughter, through much summer school and judicious choices within the IB program, managed to stay in band all four years – a very rare thing and one that would not have been possible if she was interested in science). </p>
<p>To the OP:</p>
<p>Basically, I think you need to give consideration to the following:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>How well organized are the people who are starting this fledgling IB program?</p></li>
<li><p>Would the gifted math/science magnet better meet your child’s needs? If she is science-oriented, it probably would. (In many, but not all IB schools, it is awkward and difficult for science-oriented students to get as many science courses as they want and need and to prepare adequately for science SAT Subject Tests. Sometimes, they have to do borderline-crazy things like taking AP Chemistry on top of a full IB program.) If her focus is math, IB is probably OK (but make sure that the IB program offers HL math).</p></li>
<li><p>Would enrolling in IB force your child to give up any of her dreams because of scheduling issues? For example, if your child dreams of a career in journalism and would like to work on the school newspaper, you need to find out whether the newspaper is a course or an extracurricular activity. If it’s a course, will it fit into her schedule, on top of everything she has to do for IB? (This is similar to the band/orchestra/choir problem.) Another example: If your daughter has long attended a sleepaway camp and planned to be a CIT and then a counselor there during high school, will she still be able to do so, or will she have to stay home to take summer school courses to meet graduation requirements? Third example: If your daughter wanted to do an Intel/Siemens level science research project, would it be possible? I know of only one instance in 20 years at the school my daughter came from where a student managed it, and he was an extraordinary student. </p></li>
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<p>I’m not saying that IB isn’t a good choice. It can be. It was for my daughter. But you have to go into it with your eyes open and as much information as you can get your hands on.</p>
<p>One additional thing you need to know about IB: The workload is heavy, at times VERY heavy. If she’s deeply involved in extracurriculars, IB may not be the way to go for that reason.</p>
<p>I agree with everything Marian says. Creative schedule juggling may be necessary. My son managed to stay in band for four years by taking a required health class online, and by not taking math his senior year. He also only took one science–physics. For him, it worked out well. My daughter, who is in the first year of the four-year program, is a bit more frustrated because there really was no way for her to take chorus, art, and the academic courses she wants, as well as the (lame) required tech ed course, at least without summer school.</p>
<p>Not wanting to turn this into an IB “good/bad” debate but I must reply to some comments. At our IB diploma program students work on the newspaper and the tv station, lead the JROTC, are cheerleaders and star athletes on state championship or runner-up teams, win major awards at ISEF and earn Intel/Siemens recognition, do not have to take any summer courses to meet graduation requirements, win state beauty pagents, and are members of the band, chorus and theater group for all 4 years of high school. Each class completes a joint class service project each year plus the CAS requirements. Most of the IB kids are deeply involved in ECs and most ECs at our high school are lead by IB students. It is important to investigate the individual program at the particular high school to determine what the program requirements are.</p>
<p>I agree–you have to investigate. At the school Marian and I are discussing, it’s also true that IB students are very involved in ECs. Some of the problems we are discussing flow from the fact that the school day has only 6 periods, and the state has some lame graduation requirements, including a semester of elementary-school-level Health, and two semesters of (essentially useless) Tech Ed. Right now there are bunch of IB seniors taking this “health” class because they have a free period second semester because of TOK. I suspect that each of them could teach it.</p>
<p>Oh I see. Our IB kids are excused from PE, Health, and Voc Ed, which are requirements for a regular HS diploma in our state. Plus our school has 7 periods. We remain envious of the IB school in the next county that has a 4 x 4 block schedule because those students can take 8 classes per year. Most of them take an extra AP science.
thus other points to investigate: regular graduation requirements for IB diploma candidates, and the number of periods in a school day.</p>
<p>Hunt – there are seven periods a day…S2 took health the summer after freshman year and was thankful to be rid of that. Did his PE and Fine Arts requirement freshman year, too. He took his Tech Ed credit via the TV course, which was a nice way to use the production skills he had acquired in the middle school humanities program. (Stinks that the state tech ed requirement has been changed. It really messed things up at the math/science program, too.) S2 does a fall sport and several other ECs. Would like to have done more set crew for drama, but it’s impossible with sports in the fall, and the workload this spring was too time-consuming.</p>
<p>Seven periods with state-mandated courses that aren’t covered by IB make for very few electives. </p>
<p>Having had another S at a block scheduled eight-period program with many courses that are either accelerated/designed for one semester, I have to say I like that format MUCH better. It also gave the kids the opportunity to pursue those drama/music/journalism interests while still taking the academic courses that interested them.</p>
<p>I appreciate everyone’s input. I’m glad I have almost a year to explore all these options with D.</p>
<p>Yes, I was wrong. There are seven periods. At the math/science magnet in the same county, there are eight. The tech ed requirement has always been a travesty (in my opinion), but in the past there were some choices (my son took computer programming), but now the choices are limited and most kids have to take a generic tech ed course.</p>
<p><a href=“Stinks%20that%20the%20state%20tech%20ed%20requirement%20has%20been%20changed.%20It%20really%20messed%20things%20up%20at%20the%20math/science%20program,%20too.”>quote</a>
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<p>You can still take the required tech ed courses in summer school; you just have fewer courses to choose from.</p>
<p>My daughter got the scheduling flexibility she needed by taking both of her tech ed courses and her health course in summer school. Of course, this pretty much ruined one and a half summers, but it enabled her to do what she wanted in terms of curriculum.</p>
<p>Maybe if she had been in curious77’s school system, she wouldn’t have had to do this!</p>
<p>S is guinea pig IB student. Despite enthusiastic school coordinator, significant first-year hiccups. Here’s what I would have done differently:</p>
<p>1) Demand leniency for guinea pigs’ class grades. Our teachers have already changed tactics midstream based on kids’ performance on IB curriculum. Kids grades suffered. Teachers now offering extra-credit opportunities to balance out disadvantage.</p>
<p>2) For specific colleges of interest to you, the coordinator/counselor should be willing to show you evidence of how that school views IB (and IB diploma vs individual IB classes vs AP). I’ve been left to my own devices - ain’t easy to figure out. This should be coordinator/counselor role.</p>
<p>3) Value IB as you would any consumer product or service. Not to diminish importance - it’s our kids education. But do recognize that IB organization is absolutely trying to “market” its’ program. Be an informed consumer.</p>
<p>4) The IB power point presentations you’ll see are “marketing” to parents. Info can be misleading. Examples (and my response):
a) Some colleges automatically accept IB Diploma kids (Yes - but relevant only if your kid wants to go to Oregon State, Florida…)
b) Colleges’ acceptance rates for IB Diploma kids are much higher than “average” (Sure, but most of these kids will have higher grades/scores than kids at-large anyway. The presentation material doesn’t show Diploma acceptance rates vs AP acceptance rates.)
c) All HL classes get AP-level credit (Extremely misleading. For two-year HL courses, often only the Senior year gets the AP-level credit!)
d) Colleges prefer IB diploma kids over AP kids (I’ve scoured everywhere and can’t find good evidence of this. but, nothing that contradicts this either)</p>
<p>5) Not all IB Diploma programs created equal. Per earlier posts, IB Diploma track can actually force your kid to take lower-than-AP-level classes. Again, very important that you know how a specific college views this. And again, you should require that the counselor/IB coordinator research this for you.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>And, if anyone knows if University of Calif prefers IB Diploma over AP or vice-versa, please post.</p>
<p>this topic couldn’t have come at a better time for me… thanks for the advice.
our local ib programs are recent additions and are in historically poorly performing schools to attract high -performing students
i’ve noticed that the students get much higher scores in art/music/and then language arts and lastly science and math (ib scores posted in newspaper)
i have spoken to several kids about their workload and now i think my son will be much better off in the math/science magnet school…just saying ib ,after reading and talking about it and now after these posts, seems like it would not be the best fit for him.</p>
<p>Our high school offers both AP and IB, and a mix/match approach is what both of my sons have chosen. They have had some friends do the full IB program, but many do not score high enough on the exams to get the IB diploma. Here in Georgia, the public university system will actually exempt you from your freshman year if you have an IB diploma, so the school administration has told us.</p>
<p>Our personal experience is that the full IB program does not offer enough flexibility for my sons to take the courses they are interested in, mostly because they are heavily into music and the other arts. So they take what classes they want in each, often based on who is teaching them. My oldest wanted to take band and chorus all 4 years (which he did), but his friends doing the full IB program were unable to do that, even if they wanted to. We also had an absolutely brilliant student a few years ago who only did AP courses combined with math courses offered at the community college. IB would not have let him do that.</p>
<p>We had one student earn the IB diploma at our school last year, and she is currently at Georgia Tech as a history major. If you are interested in math, science or engineering I think AP courses are a better choice. If you are skilled at writing, enjoy projects and are better in history and English, then IB is a better choice.</p>
<p>Make sure you like to write before joining IB…all of my classes require lengthy writeups, whether it be biology/chem labs, history investigative papers, english papers, the Extended Essay, math studies project, etc. Moreover, all of the exams are writing-heavy–I just finished my first 3 this past week, and my hand was cramping up like crazy from the 1st of 2 english essays I have to write, 6 history essays and 1 section of shorter responses that probably add up to another 1-2 essays, and biology short answer questions for 2 days. You must be able to write clearly and engagingly in a short amount of time for IB. If this does not appeal to you, in no way should you venture to complete the full IB Diploma. </p>
<p>Also, if Ap’s are offered, I think I would recommend those—I only get a few IB credits for schools, and because of it cannot afford NYU. If I had taken the same amount of classes but in APs, I could easily afford the school…I regret that my school does not offer many APs, and feel gypt out of the college credits my school claimed I would receive for completing the IB Diploma.</p>
<p>Yes, enjoying writing (or at least being willing to do it) is necessary. And since most schools only give credit for HLs, I would definitely try and take the respective APs for SL courses, and perhaps you can take other AP classes as well.</p>
<p>Regarding the flexibility (or lack thereof), I am able to do band all four years as a diploma candidate. Roughly 60-80 students receive the diploma every year, and many are involved in the arts and sports, as well as electives.</p>
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<p>Well, this depends on the particular school and how effectively they teach the IB curriculum. In my daughter’s IB program, kids did fine in science and math, just as they did in the other subjects (although as a group, they did better in HL History than anything else). </p>
<p>But this was a school with 20 years of experience teaching IB, selective admission to the IB program, and a near-100% success rate in terms of kids getting the IB diploma. I wouldn’t expect fledgling IB programs or those that must accept all comers, no matter how underqualified, to do anywhere near as well.</p>
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<p>One way to maximize credit is to take AP exams after taking IB courses. Sometimes, the student will score high enough to get credit. If you don’t mind paying for and taking the AP exams, it’s worth a try.</p>
<p>S2 is a full diploma candidate and is taking the corresponding AP exams for all of his Standard Level IB exams. It helps that his SL courses are taught as joint AP/IB classes (that way there are enough people enrolled so they can offer a wider variety of classes to IB and non-IB students), so they get to cover pretty much everything on both exams. It is costing us the $85/exam, adds a bit to the workload, and it makes the first three weeks of May a <em>fascinating</em> time, but it preserves his options for college credit/placement, esp. since we have no clear idea where he’ll be headed for college.</p>
<p>We’ll see at the end of first semester senior year (based on grades and if he thinks he’ll be able to pull 6/7 scores) whether he takes the AP exams for his HL courses.</p>
<p>SL courses here are all 2 years. I don’t think the kids have covered enough of the material to take the AP exam (or SAT II) before they finish the course in senior year. I wonder if there are overlaps in the test schedules between IB/AP exams? Guess I’ll find out when D is a senior. </p>
<p>At S’s school, SL’s were a one year course, so they could have taken the AP’s at the end of junior year.</p>
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<p>Our IB school just won the National Science Bowl. :)</p>