<p>exactly desertman,</p>
<p>I see no reason why black people in the same situation as white people can't achieve the same things. There is absolutely nothing to prevent black people in the same situations as white people to achieve. If there is, then we should fix those things rather than ignore them.</p>
<p>He will not have the the same life experience, but he will have the same educational opportunities. And that's what college is about: education. If being discriminated against is basis in getting an acceptance to college, then I think way more people should be getting admission, don't you think? I have been discriminated against... I do not tell myself that I am a victim of society.</p>
<p>You continue to ignore the fact that intial discrimination isn't the critera for getting admission through AA, and neither is socio-economic class. It's ethnicity. Don't you see that this is a way of implying the intellectual inferiority of an ethnicity versus another? THIS is why I do not agree with AA. I am not a racist. And I can understand the point of view of a minority in favor of AA.</p>
<p>AA is a racist policy. It is saying that all black people are inherently poor and inferior, and as a result they deserve special favors. People who support AA support the notion that blacks are inferior, which is not the case of course.</p>
<p>I'm in complete and total agreement with skierdude and desertman.</p>
<p>Same here, I'm with skierdude and desertman.</p>
<p>How can I put this...</p>
<p>When the % of the ORM applying to Harvard is proportional to the % of URMs in the country with similar qualifications are equal (accounting for population differences), then the disadvantage from whatever past circumstances will be corrected, and AA will no longer be necessary.</p>
<p>Hypothetical situation:
0.5% of ORMs are qualified to enter Ivy League
much lower percent for URM. Thus the boost given to URMs. Why don't Asians get a boost? Because they have a higher percentage of qualified candidates compared to others groups.</p>
<p>If someone could express this more clearly, by all means. I can barely understand what I wrote.</p>
<p>I would like to say that you guys are not arguing about the same thing.</p>
<p>AA proper is racist, as in the point system Michigan instituted. In more subjective admissions however, where the aim is to build a successful class as opposed to those with simply high numbers, AA is not an official policy.</p>
<p>Adcoms realize when a rich URM is just using his/her status to get in. They are not stupid. The most selective schools admit people who have shown academic distinction, but I guarantee you (well, not actually, but I am pretty sure) that a rich black kid from Connecticut with college-educated parents is not going to get in over a poor white kid from Minnesota or a first-generation Asian immigrant if they have identical stats. </p>
<p>The black kid could probably afford tutoring, accounting for his higher scores. He probably had the time and the money for more cushy EC's as well. Again, adcoms can recognize lack of initiative.</p>
<p>Now, of course there are some crazy stories, but anecdotal evidence will remain just that (and there seems to be motivation to make stuff up). You will never know exactly why a kid got into a school unless you sat in the room while his/her application was being considered in the committee.</p>
<p>I've never read "The Gatekeepers" or "A is for Admissions," but apparently those books say basically the same thing: Rich URMs do not get nearly the same benefit that poor URMs or non-URMs do.</p>
<p>"hotpiece, I bet that a poor white kid suffers a lot more than you do."</p>
<p>Skierdude, you have no idea how much i suffer compared to a poor white kid. I have gone through a lot of s**t worse than even poor kids face, so you don't even have a right to say that.</p>
<p>"we have people who benefit from AA against people who don't"</p>
<p>How do you know i'll benefit from AA. I'll probably end up attending a historically black college in the fall. Thus, i won't benefit from AA.</p>
<p>I have to agree with desetman and skierdude1000, to make the argument that AA does not siginficantly help URMs is absurd. DiamondT makes the assumption that all URMs with low stats have intangibles and all white/asians who have good stats and are rejected simply study? And he accuses of others of making assumptions? Has he read the entire app of every single person he's talking about?</p>
<p>My main problem with AA is that it is rewarding some students simply because who they were born as. The argument of AA is simply of RACE...not diversity of interests or whatever else DiamondT wants to talk about. Affirmative Action is designed to give a boost up to minorities in the college admissions. I don't really care how you feel about but it is incredible ignorant to pretend that AA is not about race. While I agree with the limitation of some socioeconomic conditions, it is absurd to say that all URMs are limited by these conditions. This is cut and dry racial profiling of an entire group of people. The fact that race is one of the only parts of you application that you cannot control (don't get me started on legacy) but yet could control admissions into educational institutions frankly contradicts the very basis of the civil rights movement that all people should be given equal opportunities regardless of skin color. In this system of college admissions, people are not given equal opportunities based on SKIN COLOR.</p>
<p>If you want to reward diversity in interests or outstand achievment, I am all for that. But please don't reward it for diverse interests for an ASIAN or for a URM.
The two defintions of something that is racist are:
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.</p>
<p>AA fall into both categories.</p>
<p>First and foremost, interesting thread. I, myself, am Asian. Growing up in Arcadia, nicknamed Arcasia, perhaps one of the most intensely Asian places ever, aside from our neighbor and friendly Math Team rivals, San Marino. That said, I have witnessed plenty of anger addressed toward AA, and I, myself, cannot help but feel as if AA is detrimental, in all respects. </p>
<p>I will admit that Affirmative Action seeks, and succeeds, at promoting diversity on our campuses. Diversity has proven itself to be a beneficial aspect of the complete education. For example, on the boards of major companies, there is usually some sort of quota system that is akin to affirmative action. Why? Surely, no one in a business cares whether his or her board is racially diverse? The bottom-line is everything. Right? Wrong. Its a simple fact that diversity cultivates a culture of innovation and creativity. Having a bunch of racially homogenous people only results in stagnation. I would refer to The Economist, an internationally recognized new magazine, to highlight their study on affirmative action. Currently, those who are not fit to do the work drop out. Its not as if theyre getting passed along and end up graduating with a 4.0 when they were that unqualified to begin with. But thats what sucks, isnt it? The fact that they wasted what could have been My/Our shot at this great education. </p>
<p>DesertmanI agree. Everyone gets discriminated against. Heck, arent we getting discriminated against right now with affirmative action? were asian, so were supposed to have more opportunities to succeed. That denigrates the character of the Asian as well as others. Its not because Im Asian that I got my 800s. I worked hard. </p>
<p>Two wrongs do not make a right. We shouldnt discriminate to right the wrong of past discriminations. We can only prevent future discrimination as best we can and move on.</p>
<p>It is true that AA is, by definition, temporary. But artificially boosting demographics often doesn't help. In fact, AA doesn't work at all. Its not working makes it permanent.
AA doesn't boost the qualification level, it lowers the standards.
SHOULDN'T SOCIETY BE TRYING TO UP THE QUALIFICATION LEVEL? IS THAT NOT A BETTER SOLUTION THAN AA? Tell me I'm wrong.</p>
<p>"I guarantee you (well, not actually, but I am pretty sure) that a rich black kid from Connecticut with college-educated parents is not going to get in over a poor white kid from Minnesota or a first-generation Asian immigrant if they have identical stats."</p>
<p>bptoast-</p>
<p>you don't know what you are talking about. If colleges only care about socioeconomics as you are suggesting, race wouldn't play a factor. It does. Now unless you are going to make sense, don't post worthless stuff. Have a nice day. :)</p>
<p>I find it interesting that the only people here who support AA are blacks who benefit from it.</p>
<p>BTW, hotpiece 101, while I do not doubt that you have been discriminated against, you are not the only one. You are living in an extremely narrow world my friend if you do not think that asian are discriminated against. I wish that world did exist but I have read too many stories of "dirty chinks" being physically attacked and discriminated against to believe that. Where are their reparations?</p>
<p>I never said that asians were not discriminated against. I simply replied to a post that said that whites and blacks of equal incomes have the same life experiences.</p>
<p>And desertman, like i said before, i do not plan on benefitting from AA as i will be attending a HBC in the fall.</p>
<p>People from the Middle East are discriminated against more than anyone else at the moment. They do not benefit from AA.</p>
<p>Hotpiece- I am SICK of your lies!!! You say "I will be attending a HBC in the fall." You just applied EA to HARVARD by mistake then, right? Unbelievable.</p>
<p>Jesus, Desertman, do you ever have anything nice to say to anyone? You mucked up one of my threads, you're doing the same thing here, and you were flaming a kid on the Harvard board because he didn't have stellar SATs... what, exactly, is your problem with the world?</p>
<p>I applied EA to Harvard because my parents made me. I really want to go to Spelman in Atlanta, Georgia. I would love to do something with mathematics and science and perhaps computer science, and spelman is home to the spelbots, a world-renowed robotic team.</p>
<p>also, most asians are more interested in hardcore math and science so they wouldn't want to go to a LAC where the research opportunities/labs pale in comparison to big research universities like Stanford/Harvard etc..</p>