If any one says anything about AA

<p>White women benefit from AA more than anyone else. Far more. And they're never mentioned in these topics. But, no one is racist just because they look at AA as a race-policy.</p>

<p>And blacks and whites do not have the same opportunities at the same levels of economic prosperity. They can't (for the most part) live in the same neighborhoods so they can't go to the same preschools and middle schools and high schools (Guess whose schools get less funds though?), they can't get the same loans for housing so, in the event that they could afford to live in the same neighborhood, and the realtor was not discriminatory, then they might not be able to live in a home as expensive as an equally wealthy white might. Which, again, suggests that an equally wealthy black family will be placed in an inferior school (Assuming that they are in the public system).</p>

<p>'When it comes down to identical stats (and since stats seem to mean everything to you, subjective things like essays and recs have no value) the favor goes to the one that would make that class as diverse and interesting as possible"</p>

<p>that only works if the minority is connected with their respective culture. if the minorities are disconnected with their culture, then it would make no sense. i believe admissions can see this through essays, extracurricular, etc.</p>

<p>Aeggie....your whole argument about black and whites not receiving the same opportunities depend on the fact that "everyone is racist". I'm sure that 99% of realtors are violating federal law by discriminating in housing services.</p>

<p>Bravos, it does not. It depends on the fact that a significant number of people are. A significant number of people in power, more importantly. Most of the whites I interact with on a day to day basis are normal, nice people. These people, however, are not politicians, and can't approve budgets for schools, or redraw districts, or sign legislation. </p>

<p>Trent Lott, however, is a politician, and can affect those sorts of things.</p>

<p>Here</a> is a study on some of the housing stuff I mentioned. I didn't make it up.</p>

<p>emilylime--
Who said I wasn't going to make an effort to change it? </p>

<p>Rather than ineffectively compensating for racial discrimination through AA, the same chances should be given to ALL students of all ethnicities and socioeconomic classes from the start. Idealistic, you say? It's not less practical than putting a twisted method in place.</p>

<p>You people are ignoring two important things:
- AA simply does not work.
- Look at minorities who don't benefit from AA. As I said earlier, students of Middle Eastern descent do not profit no matter how poor and no matter how much they are discriminated against.</p>

<p>how would Middle Eastern students not profit from AA? i need some facts.</p>

<p>They simply don't. The category reads as follows: "Caucasian/White (includes Middle Eastern)." Don't tell me there's no discrimination going on right now concerning Middle Eastern people.</p>

<p>"AA simply does not work."</p>

<p>Why not?</p>

<p>i'm not disagreeing with anything, i just feel people who make statements always need to back em up with facts or else the statement hangs loose. heres something i found on MiddleEasterns and AA:</p>

<p>"Writing in the Washington Post's Outlook section today, Peter Skerry offers some telling observations about the state of the domestic Muslim community. Or is that Arab community? Neither. Essentially, they don't exist. Yet.</p>

<p>In the United States today, there is no "Middle Eastern community," no "Arab community" and no "Muslim community," certainly not in any politically cohesive sense. </p>

<p>Muslims and Arabs are a disparate lot, especially in this country. Despite our tendency to equate Arabs with Muslims, the fact is that most Arabs in the United States today are not Muslims -- they're Christians from places such as Lebanon. And most Muslims are not Arabs -- they're South Asians or African Americans. Muslims here are riven by national, linguistic and sectarian divisions. And many Middle Easterners (Iranians, Turks and Kurds among them) are not Arabs. The divide between Iranians and other Muslim immigrants is particularly telling. Often identifying themselves as "Persians," Iranians in this country have not been highly visible as Muslims.</p>

<p>What teeming waters, one would think, into which for diversity-seeking admissions officers to cast their nets. But so far, to the best of my knowledge, that hasn't happened, at least on a large scale. It's not clear to why Arabs don't receive diversity preferences in larger numbers. I suspect Muslims don't because of the still lingering notion that preferences to religious groups would encounter breach the "wall of separation" between church and state, but as I've often predicted (here and here, for example) if the diversity justification for discrimination prevails in the Supreme Court it will inevitably spread to include religious preferences. If the demand for diversity can undermine the barriers against racial discrimination, as it has very nearly done, surely legitimization by the Supremes will give it enough force to sweep away the barriers against religious discrimination as well.</p>

<p>Skerry argues that the absence of common interests among domestic Muslims and Arabs is rapidly changing.</p>

<p>All of these groups are beginning to identify with one another, in no small part because the U.S. government and many citizens are treating them as a more or less homogeneous group. Waging the homeland security battle is necessary. Yet, however one feels about the new Immigration and Naturalization Service registration requirement for men from many Muslim countries, or about the profiling of Arabs and Muslims more generally, it is important to understand that our policies are helping to forge a new minority identity. We are pushing these groups together into a political coalition around grievances against the government that will not soon be forgotten. The outcome will almost certainly be a new minority group whose claims against America will be a source of rancor and division long after the current crisis has eased.</p>

<p>Government policy created a "Hispanic" community out of many different nationality groups who did not realize they were Hispanic until they came to the United States and were put in that category. Ditto with Asian-Americans. And even with blacks. (See my discussion of "People of Color Who Never Felt They Were Black," here.)</p>

<p>Now that's about to happen with Arabs. Or Middle Easterners. Or Muslims. But at least that will prepare them to receive the benefit of preferences, should they survive."</p>

<p>a post or link like above to back up ur argument would be better for me to understand. Just saying "they simply don't" isn't going to cut it.</p>

<p>Your article supports anti-AA arguments. And strongly at that.</p>

<p>I have never read of any proof whatsoever that AA has benefitted any given minority group. If it worked, why have so many colleges withdrawn their support from it (e.g. the UCs)? And why wouldn't we be hearing about the imminent sucess that is affirmative action? We would be hearing a lot about it if it worked, my friends. I have really only heard of it making it even more difficult for minorities to stay competitive in college.</p>

<p>Oh, and "they simply don't" referred to the fact that schools do not make a distinction between white and middle eastern on the application.</p>

<p>"I have really only heard of it making it even more difficult for minorities to stay competitive in college."</p>

<p>Only at less challenging schools. At the most competitive, black grad rates are identical to that of the white counterparts: <a href="http://www.jbhe.com/features/45_student_grad_rates.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jbhe.com/features/45_student_grad_rates.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>AA doesn't work because the fields where it is most important for progress to be made (housing, I can't stress that enough, and the job market), still lag behind. Colleges are doing their part, but no one else is willing to.</p>

<p>here's an easy example:</p>

<p>I hung out with a hispanic girl tonight and a bunch of us were talking about college applications... she mentions that she's applying to Harvard and someone says "you know how hard it is to get in there?" (this girl takes APs/honors, lives in my suburbia town, is middle class, has something like 1900 SATs and around the top 10%)</p>

<p>she replies something like:</p>

<p>"who cares, I'm hispanic"</p>

<p>I find it odd that so many people in CC forums are so anti-AA and pro-"numbers only" admissions.
If you actually visit top schools, students are proud of the diversity of their campuses and no one gives a crap what you got on your SAT II Bio exam or AP tests.</p>

<p>I just have to say that after reading through the whole post I agree with what skierdude1000 has said. I am what you might consider a "rich urm" and I do think that the whole idea of AA is demeaning to urm's because it's basically saying that regardless of one's socio-economic background urm's are all in need of an extra boost because they dont compare to white and asian people academically (asians aren't considered urm). It puts me in an uncomfortable position because if I do happen to get accepted in the school that I applied to I know people will think it was all due to affirmative action and not my own abilities and it worries me that that is most probably what the case could be. It isn't fair in the least for someone to be accepted into a college soley based on their race. it is demeaning to the person and rasict in nature, economic status if anything should be what determines who gets an extra leg up into the college application process. I still think that the philospohy behind AA is appropriate but modifications should be made to make the process fair, maybe looking into the economic and social background of an applicant who is an urm.</p>

<p>I completely agree, shinedown. If i get into Harvard, everyone will say it's because i'm black and completely disregard my stats.</p>

<p>hotpiece, you agree with shinedown. Shinedown agrees with me. By the transitive property, you agree with me. :)</p>

<p>If there were no AA and you got into Harvard, people would know it was because of who you are. No one would question how you got in. It's the same with legacy applicants. Some people blatantly get in because they are legacies (talk about building diversity!)</p>

<p>I never said i disagreed, i just simply refuted some statements that i thought were false.</p>

<p>"that only works if the minority is connected with their respective culture. if the minorities are disconnected with their culture, then it would make no sense. i believe admissions can see this through essays, extracurricular, etc."</p>

<p>why would it matter if a minority doesnt represent with their "culture" if white people will always see them as a minority or something different?</p>