<p>mhmmm…PREPpy is the dominant look at NE PREP schools. It’s not a prejudicial remark to note the flow of pink and green from parent to child. Personally, the effect/look that GMT noted makes me gag, but it’s still an accurate observation.</p>
<p>Agree with Tiger. Some would see only benefits. Others would be disgusted. I suppose the truth is somewhere in the middle.</p>
<p>I appreciate the insight tigerdad, and I suspect you’re right. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the future as my kids grow into their adult lives…</p>
<p>Tiger raises some interesting points about the social-fit at the elite schools. My snarky remarks about the prep school kids and their dress-alike preppy parents, hints at the social unease we parents feel when visiting our S’s BS-- we are not from the NE.</p>
<p>Yes, we are thrilled at the incredible education our S is receiving at his acronym BS. But as actively involved parents at our S’s previous day school (i.e. volunteering, coaching, fundraising, socially interacting with teachers, PTA, etc.), we are less than thrilled about how we have been shut-out from involvement at the BS. The only involvement the school seems to want from us is for us to write donor checks. The BS’s fundraising committees are all headed and run by multi-generation legacy parents whose last names match the names of the school buildings. I wonder if we would feel more involved in a less elitist environment.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, DS is happy and thriving, and BS is, after all, about him and not us.</p>
<p>I agree completely with the perception that we are asked only for tuition and funds. I have found this to be true as well. We have also found that the extra TLC is available to the families and students of generational donors. There are, indeed, “students from every quarter”. The faculty of the institutions are wonderful, dedicated, caring people. However, once one rises to the level of administration (admissions, deans, administrators), there appears to be little personal consideration given, unless one is connected. This is to be expected in any large institution. What rankles, however, is the schools’ public relations arm suggesting that the is a great deal of personal care given. Again, the faculty does give a great deal of themselves to the students. Administration, however, seems they could care less about the average student. I have seen this repeatedly.</p>
<p>lol, do our kids go to the same school? ;-)</p>
<p>While they could indeed go to the same school, I strongly suspect that this is common to the northeast BS phenomenon.</p>
<p>I have a son who goes to a very well endowed school in the midwest. The vibe there is completely different. There is more a midwest mentality. There, even the heavy donors seem much more approachable and down to earth. The Parents Association is very active and rotates, as students graduate (parents are on the Parents Association only as long as they have a child at the school). Large donations are given fairly quietly, and without much public fanfare. While I do not doubt that problems can be smoothed over with donations there as well, it is far less “in your face”, and there also appears to be a line over which they will not cross.</p>
<p>Whoa! how do you do that: make a title for your post?</p>
<p>Buyer’s remorse. Caveat emptor. Prestige has its cost.</p>
<p>Replies are given the option for a title</p>
<p>Tofu, Caveat emptor, indeed!</p>
<p>Tigerdad, thx for the tips!</p>
<p>I’m not certain which message this was directed at, but I have no buyer’s remorse. I understood what we were getting into at the outset. I find that the schools in question impart an excellent education. Again, I feel that the teachers are wonderful, dedicated individuals. I personally feel that the exposure to the social environment can be helpful, depending upon what course one wishes to embark upon in life.</p>
<p>However, the institutions involved must expect some degree of disillusionment when they advertise themselves as being non-elitist, and having respect for “the everyman”, then behave differently.</p>
<p>Precisely.</p>
<p>Hmm. Interesting discussion. @TigerDad - perhaps an alternate word might be poise and confidence. A sense of worldliness not easily attained in other schools born of the constant exposure to higher level thinking and a wide range of economic and cultural diversity. Certainly I was raised in the inner city and attending Exeter was a culture shock. I’d had no exposure to students whose parents ran multinational corporations, were royalty or - heck, were members of the White House inner circle. But then again - those kids had little or no exposure to kids like me. And there was a blending that began to occur. My vocabulary and mannerisms did probably change more than theirs did, but it was - as you said - an essential skill I needed when I began navigating corporate and financial environments on my own. The trick was not to lose my identity in the process. Since I still live in the Midwest, I can see the other side - the parent involvement at local schools and colleges directly related to having children there. That those are often more discrete - but that there is also an insular nature to this region. That what we “do” and “know” suffices. And by the time I see those same students for college interviews I’m realizing they don’t always compare favorably (in terms of experiences, exposures, practical interactions) with BS kids. Still good kids, but it’s almost as if a part of their growth was stunted. Which is why my daughter fought so hard to get away from it. And now I see the same change - she was always confident and articulate - but there’s a maturity and proactiveness there that far exceeds her local friends who meet with me for mentoring each week.</p>
<p>Having said that, I felt like @GMTplus7 - sometimes schools do give the impression that our “value” is from a fundraising perspective only. But I have found that not to be true at my daughter’s school. They go a long way to emphasize parent as part of the “family” versus parent as “source of donations.” Became very evident while my daughter was abroad and the school - even her own advisor - continued to stay in to touch with my husband and I. </p>
<p>This is timely - especially the comment about advertising an inclusive environment, then failing to deliver it. Just got off the phone with the headmaster of my own alma mater. A number of alum are expressing similar views - that the school may need to adjust it’s approach. It’s gratifying to see that the staff shares the desire to see the campus culture lean more in that direction of humanizing the campus experience for students and families. Maybe a shift is coming - but it helps when it is driven by parents and alumni who don’t go “quietly into the night.” Schools can’t fix something if the users don’t tell them it’s broken. :)</p>
<p>I wonder if the size of a school makes a difference in how comfortable parents of relatively average means or non-“preppy” backgrounds (and I include myself in both groups) feel on a BS campus, or if it is more comes down to the personality/atmosphere/diversity of a given school/staff.</p>
<p>“However, once one rises to the level of administration (admissions, deans, administrators), there appears to be little personal consideration given, unless one is connected.”</p>
<p>ˆˆThis would bother me. Thankfully, at DD’s smaller (300 or so students) school, I’ve felt we’ve received as much personal consideration as we’ve desired/warranted. If there was an issue or we had a question, we have written or called and been satisfied with the responsiveness. I’ve even corresponded with the Head about things not related to my daughter on several occasions (education in general or specific topics related to mutual interests).</p>
<p>Exie, thinking about what you’ve just said, I do agree that there is indeed a component of confidence imparted to some of the students. I know little of Exeter, personally. I know that at another, very similar school, the students are indeed exposed to many different cultures and members of other socioeconomic brackets. When one of my daughter’s friends was recently asked by a parent what she did during the summers growing up, she said, “I made shoes”, referring to child labor factories in Thailand. Other students obviously hail from more privileged backgrounds. They do mix… to a point. Dorms at the schools I know are “stacked” by the second and certainly the third years. Students of similar background and means tend to live together after awhile. This is not necessarily bad, but is to be expected to some extent, given human nature. These different students still get along. They do interact in classes and activities. They can and still are friends. But their closest alliances still seem to be with those of a similar socioeconomic (not racial or ethnic) background.</p>
<p>I suspect that living away from home in a structured environment far from home does contribute to what I see as an accelerated maturation, something which many boarding schools impart. I am no educator, but I would think this explains some of what you see in midwestern day school versus boarding school students.</p>
<p>Again, I do not have direct knowledge of Exeter, but at another “very similar” school, the individuals asked to sit on the Board of Trustees are financiers, corporate attorneys, corporate CEOs, and hedge fund managers. I may be missing someone, but I know of no educators, poets, musicians, writers, or nobel laureates asked to serve on the boards which steer the schools. Again, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with this, but I, at least, perceive a significant catering to these individuals. I am not the only one who has felt this way. Even the catering to them is not a problem in and of itself. But when there is a clear dichotomy between the way in which they are treated, and the way in which the rest of us are treated, it belies the true values of the administration. </p>
<p>Finally, I would say that frequently the students and their parents are generally afraid of “rocking the boat”. When my daughter and her friend wrote an article in her school newspaper which was critical of some of the school’s policies, I was, frankly concerned. I had the clear impression that there could be repercussions. Indeed, the students themselves articulate clearly their fear of the “elastic clause” in the school’s regulations which allows the administration to define behavioral infractions at their sole discretion.</p>
<p>The schools probably should be made aware of the way parents and students feel. However, I fear that modifying their behavior for now will not address an underlying division unless there is a decoupling of money/donations and influence. Forgive my cynicism, but good luck with that.</p>
<p>I asked my D about whether there is an obvious difference between the “haves” and "have nots, so to speak, at her school. Her response was. “It’s not an issue. Nobody cares.” </p>
<p>I know that it is very common for the kids to stay in their original dorms for four years, so I don’t believe there is any stacking of rich kids in the dorms. My D is very close to the girls in her dorm. I believe they must be from all backgrounds. My D (a FA kid) has never once felt uncomfortable or out of place at school. </p>
<p>I guess this goes back to classicalmama’s previous post about why she looked for a school with great diversity (i.e. high financial aid percentage). If so many kids are on financial aid, the school will not be inundated with preppy kids looking like their parents, who started dressing that way since their BS days (because a good portion of the kids’ parents didn’t go to boarding school).</p>
<p>I have no comment on the administration because, admittedly, I have not had much experience with them. All I know is that my D feels welcome and she is happy.</p>
<p>The kids may not make a big deal about FA, but they certainly know who are the “haves” and “havenots”. It is apparent from the stuff they have in their dorm rooms, the places they “summer” at (only “haves” use summer as a verb), and their last names.</p>
<p>While the kids from different socio-economic groups are friendly to each other, they tend not to form close friendships outside their peer group.</p>
<p>I was not saying there tight division along socioeconomic lines. These children do clearly associate with each other freely. That’s not the issue. My daughter has told me that it is not a tremendous issue for her or her friends. She did state that she felt it was “natural” for the most priviliged students to be closer to each other, as they lived very different lives than others, with such different home lifestyles that they were more comfortable with others of the same background. Again, she was not saying that there was a “barrier” of some sort, only that she understood the preferred associations of some students.</p>
<p>I don’t know much about the social interactions at most BS but Khan did write about his fairly recent experiences as an instructor at St. Paul’s. He indicated that there was one dorm in which children of older legacy families’ lived.</p>
<p>I’m sorry if I’ve started a tangent discussion to the initial thread which has made some uncomfortable (myself a bit as well, if I’m to be honest). My only point really was that while I have found teachers to be nearly always caring and attentive, I and others have not had the same experience when it comes to the administrations. It is never a problem when everything is going well. It only rears its head when there is a bump, or when there is necessary competition among the students (such as admissions, or college advising).</p>
<p>@parlabane – your post – mhmmm…PREPpy is the dominant look at NE PREP schools. It’s not a prejudicial remark to note the flow of pink and green from parent to child. Personally, the effect/look that GMT noted makes me gag, but it’s still an accurate observation. –
takes what I wrote out of context. GMT said that the preppy look is “kinda scary”, then reiterating that adults sporting the look must not have grown up taste-wise. I find that statement offensive. GMT would never have felt so free to discriminate against any other population/mode of dress. When I took him to task about it, he side-stepped the issue…twice. Just sayin’</p>
<p>ExieMITalum, I was also asked for feedback by my child’s advisor at Exeter, regarding parental involvement. I sent in some pointed suggestions on how to improve parent involvement, and what I thought some areas for improvement should be. I was asked if it was OK to send along to Mr. Hassan and the faculty. To my surprise, I have realized the headmaster and many other Exeter faculty had read what I sent, and some of the suggestions were coming to be. GULP. Maybe I shouldn’t have been so blunt?? But, they do seem to be trying. </p>
<p>Things I suggested:</p>
<p>Parents can feel excluded, maybe by the size, complexity and distance. We wonder if it is intentional. </p>
<p>More coordination between advisor and parents. Scheduled advising, with updates about course choice, ECs, etc. to parents. Kids say next to nothing.</p>
<p>Easier interaction from home with school, for example away persmissions streamlined, how to send a cake for special celebrations directions on parent page.</p>
<p>Better integration between academics and home summer/vacation activities and plans. Help with summer activities/internships (even a listing?) How to coordinate with faculty to maybe coordinate promising outside enrichment activities with school.</p>
<p>Blog with pictures of dorm activities, updates on what is happening around dorm/campus. (By the way, subscribe to the student newspaper if you can this has been very interesting for our family.)</p>