<ol>
<li><p>Stern has the best finance faculty and courses in the world </p></li>
<li><p>A professor just one the Nobel and professor Damadoran is the foremost expert in valuation. Financial experts rountinetly act as visiting profs at Stern</p></li>
<li><p>I still want to see if the average student at Umich has over a 1400+... because this is the case at Stern.</p></li>
<li><p>Stern's only rivals in terms of student body are the top Ivies, and it has surpassed Columbia already in terms of stats and is viewed better by recruiters</p></li>
</ol>
<p>This thread amuses me. Frankly, Ross, Stern and Kelley are all fine choices for an undergraduate business education. I will agree that Ross and Stern are generally thought of more highly than Kelley, but that does not mean that you will be shut out of top jobs if you graduate from Kelly -- only that you have less margin for error.</p>
<p>If one is choosing between Ross and Stern, it really depends on what you think you might want to do with your business degree. For example, if you think you want to land a job on Wall Street, then Stern will probably give you greater opportunities (given their location and sheer number of students who end up working for investment banks from Stern). However, given that many of the larger investment banking firms also recruit at Ross, going to Michigan will not ruin your chances at landing a job on Wall Street. But it probably is still true that: 1) the big boys probably draw more from NYU than from Michigan; and 2) many more of the smaller, specialized and regional firms probably only recruit from East Coast schools.</p>
<p>The opposite is true if you think you would like to go into marketing. Virtually all of the top marketing companies recruit at Ross (Kraft, General Mills, Proctor and Gamble), while, if they recruit at all at Stern, they draw fewer employees from NYU. These companies designate several "core schools" from which they draw the vast majority of their marketing employees (Investment banks do the same thing). It does not mean that you can't get a job if you go to a non-core school; it just means that you will have to work a heck of a lot harder.</p>
<p>Another factor is where you think that you might want to live after you graduate. Here in the Midwest, Kelley and Ross both have excellent reputations, while Stern is just not a known quantity. While on the East Coast, I am sure that Stern has much better name recognition than either Kelley or Ross.</p>
<p>So, there is not one correct answer to the question. All of the choices have certain positives and negatives. On the positive side, if you are successful at any of these schools, you will have variety of opportunities after you graduate.</p>
<p>nyusternman -- are you certain that the professor was awarded one Nobel?</p>
<p>I hear great things about UVA McIntire program. And Charlottesville is a great little college town. You applied to three of the more pleasant campus/college towns out there. If the money is no issue, McIntire and Ross would be better options than Kelley. However, like I said to the OP, it is hard to justify paying an extra $20,000-$25,000/academic year just to attend McIntire, Ross or Stern when the alternative is a top 10 program such as Kelley...unless money is not an issue or unless you are 100% sure you want to end up working for a very exclusive company.</p>
<p>"However, like I said to the OP, it is hard to justify paying an extra $20,000-$25,000/academic year just to attend McIntire, Ross or Stern when the alternative is a top 10 program such as Kelley...unless money is not an issue or unless you are 100% sure you want to end up working for a very exclusive company."</p>
<p>Well thats just the thing, but OP had also expressed an interest in getting an MBA, and the best route to get into a top MBA program is having an exclusive job at an exclusive company.</p>
<p>That is not always the case. My cousin worked for Ford and he is now getting is MBA at Kellogg. He will graduate in May but he already has a full time offer with Booz Allen. Obviously, applying to MBA schools when one works for a top IB or MC firm is a plus, but it is not always a must. Working for any respected employer will do if you have a good undergraduate education, good professional progress and a good GMAT score.</p>
<p>Personally, I think it is more important not to get oneself in too tight a spot financially. Like I said, if money is a concern, I would recommend Indiana.</p>
<p>I am not so sure about that exclusive job at that exclusive company for athe MBA route. Those grades and the GMAT scores do count for an awful lot, and many of the MBAs that I know (HBS, UC, Wharton) did not have such special jobs. They found a an interesting spin on some pretty ordinary jobs, in fact. I also know a number of former classmates from a selective undergrad school who did get great jobs through family connections, yet they did not get into any selective MBA programs because their grades as an undergrad just did not cut it. I have seen many people who were social work, education, engineering, etc who went on for that MBA. Someone who is offered a merit award from Kelly is very likely to do well there and find a job that will get him into a MBA program. Since SAT scores and GMAT scores do have some correspondence, and for Kelly to offer a scholarship the OP had to have good numbers on that SAT, I would say the Op would do just fine at Kelly. And hopefully they will teach him the best place to bank that $100K he will save.</p>
<p>Indiana - and you have 100k in investment capital! (a no-brainer to me.) (and, if you do well, you might even end up at a better grad school - though it won't make any difference - these days, grad B. schools want you to go out into the world and get some experience first. Think what 100k could subsidize in the way of experience!)</p>
<p>Al: "That is not always the case. My cousin worked for Ford and he is now getting is MBA at Kellogg."</p>
<p>-There are also people who've gotten into Harvard and Yale undergrad with an 1180 on the SAT...look, I never said it is always the case. You don't need to work at an exclusive job on wall st. to get into a top b-school, but it won't hurt. My point is that the type of job one has after undergrad is an undeniably important factor in MBA admissions, especially so with the better programs. </p>
<p>Furthermore, the opposite of what you say is also true, I know people with less than amazing GPA's/GMAT scores but exclusive jobs, who got into top business schools (coincidently enough, including Kellogg--see post #12 in this thread). There are a number of factors in b-school admissions, gpa, gmat, job after college....the goal should be to make all of them as strong as possible.</p>
<p>Take a look at the total staff members who are NAS members and members of similar groups. Michigan is WAY ahead. To get into those groups requires achievements at the top of your field.</p>
<p>NYU has more Guggenheims than UMich. There are so many measures of faculty quality....so its a subjective area.</p>
<p>You also have to consider that the reason UMICH B-school is now called the Ross school is because Stephen Ross donated $100 million recently to the business school. I would think that this may help to improve Michigan's business program even more. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>Oh, it certainly will help...thats never been an issue. However, the OP won't even be guaranteed admission to the B-school. From what it is being said on this board, getting in the b-school after 2 years at UMich is very hard.</p>
<p>The $100 Million is only about a quarter of the total amount Michigan's B School has raised these last couple of years. Obviously, this will help. Michigan is going to build a new building and add faculty and scholarships.</p>
<p>I can't believe no one has mentioned the competition at umich. they are competing against people with 1200s and 1300s to get into Ross, not kids with 1400s- 1500s. So the ones who get in aren't that smart, it's just weak competition. Hence, Mich=overrated</p>
<p>Quakerman, </p>
<p>Actually I did mention it....on first 3 pages of this thread, this is discussed extensively.</p>
<p>The way I see it: The OP wants to eventually go to a top MBA program..a good job, while of course not the only factor, will help him in MBA admissions...that is clear enough. Out of the OP's 3 choices, Indiana will not be the best route for him to get an elite job. This leaves NYU Stern and UMich Ross. There is no guarantee he'll get into Ross after initially being at UMich, whereas at Stern its a sure thing provided he gets in to NYU (where the job opps. will be better than UMich if he wants to work in NY and do the wall st. thing). Again, I believe the best choice here is NYU.</p>
<p>But it would be easier to get higher grades at Ross, since Stern kids are smarter, plus I'd put money that a good amount of Ross kids wouldn't even get into Stern if they applied as freshmen, since their SAT would be too low for acceptance</p>
<p>The top 25% of UM students scored over 1410 on the SAT. It takes an average two year gpa of 3.6 to get into Ross. This also puts you in the top 25% of students at UM--actually more like the top 10%. Therefore it is pretty likely that many of the Ross students were in that top 25% group with OVER 1410 on the SAT. I'd take grades over SAT scores as proof of ability anyway. I seriously doubt Ross grading is any easier than NYU's.</p>
<p>I believe OP is coming from out of state, and from what I have heard, since I'm in the same position, is that if an out of stater is good enough to get into Michigan, and continues the academic success from hs, then it won't be a huge task getting into Ross. I would presume that more in state kids get denied who maybe had sub 1300 SAT scores and 3.5 GPAs.</p>
<p>Barrons,</p>
<p>NYU's middle 50% SAT range is 1300-1450 (from NYU's website), and Stern's average is a 1412 (For ED this year, NYU's overall average was a 1410, and Stern's was a 1440).</p>
<p>On the other hand, UMich's middle 50% SAT range is 1230-1390 (from UMich's website). What this means is that the 75th percentile UMich student with a 1390 SAT is nothing special in NYU's overall freshmen class, would be BELOW AVERAGE at Stern, and may not even get accepted into NYU to begin with since NYU has a significantly lower acceptance rate than UMich does. </p>
<p>Also, there is at best a weak correlation between SAT scores and college gpa, so it does not follow that everyone accepted into Ross had over a 1400 just because they had strong gpa's at UMich (the issue here is selectivity in freshman admissions, not college grades).</p>
<p>exactly. and stern is known to have arguably the most brutal grading curve in the country. imagine if the 2 yr program was at Stern-it would certainly be a lot tougher than Ross to gain admittance. The USNEWS ranking is a huge fraud-kind of like WUSTL and Northwestern in the top 10 ug</p>