<p>The only fraud is NYU. It's still a second rate university with a good business school. As an overall school it can't hold UM's jock. Don't confuse popular with quality. Jessica Simpson is popular. NYU enrolls thousands of less qualified students in their non-traditional programs. You can enroll at NYU in the subway.</p>
<p>that does nothing to disprove that Stern ug is superior to Ross ug, because you can't lie about statistics or student body (awards, job placement etc) in which Stern clearly is better</p>
<p>"You can enroll at NYU in the subway."</p>
<p>Huh? You must be talking about the School of Continuing Ed...this is adult ed. which pretty much anyone can enroll in. What we're talking about is traditional undergrad programs, and more specifically the b-schools. Lets see Harvard has an extension school which pretty much anyone can enroll in as well, does that make it second rate?...so get real, everyone knows continiuing ed. is different from normal freshmen admissions you retard. </p>
<p>Phallic obsessed Barrons proclaims: "As an overall school it can't hold UM's jock."</p>
<p>Yeah right. This is directly from UMich's website and shows stats of the current freshmen class.</p>
<p>"21,261 Applications
13,272 Admissions
6,000 Enrolled (Unofficial)
Middle 50th percentile of the class
High School GPA of 3.6-3.9 (academic courses only; un-weighted) 10th & 11 grades
ACT Composite of 26-30
SAT I Total of 1230-1390"</p>
<p>Basically, this is a 62.4% acceptance rate! Let me say it slowly for you: Almost 2/3 of the people who apply get in. Compare this to an NYU acceptance rate in the 20s (not the b-school, the overall undergrad acceptance rate) and a middle 50% SAT range that is 1300-1450. By the way, Stern makes up less than 20% of NYU's undergrad population, so it alone cannot account for these stats. I repeat, the student with a 75th percentile 1390 SAT at UMich would be nothing special in the overall NYU freshmen class, and would be BELOW AVERAGE at Stern...its very likely this student might not even get into NYU due the enormous number of apps. it recieves. NYU's overall Sat stats are higher than UMich's, it gets more apps, and accepts less of them for a smaller freshmen class...and you have no evidence to refute these objective measures. Recruiters in general would put Stern above Ross-Stern gets mentioned in the same breath as Wharton much more often. Don't give me some US News reputation BS, this is the same survey that put UPenn above Stanford and MIT. </p>
<p>Your Jessica Simpson example is moronic, you are confusing popularity and selectivity.</p>
<p>i'm the original poster.</p>
<p>I applied to NYU - Stern and Michigan - LSA (their main school).</p>
<p>Now, i have heard from many that Stern is harder to get into than Michigan LSA (not ross), and Michigan LSA is harder to get into than NYU CAS.
And they are all easier to get into than Indiana.</p>
<p>Is NYU and Michigan on a totally higher level than Indiana? How much better is it really? Is it possible to go to MBA to NYU or Michigan or any other high ranked MBA school from Indiana (i'm a direct admit by the way, i dont have to wait a year before going into Kelley), or is it very very hard AKA top 5% of Kelley?</p>
<p>The reason I do not want to go to NYU, is because I've always wanted a college experience that Michigan/Indiana/Maryland offered. I want a campus, a sports team dorm life, etc. My dream has always been an MBA at NYU-Stern, but for undergraduate, I think I would love to go to Michigan (if i can make it).</p>
<p>I do not doubt that both schools are excellent, but I was thinking of either a job at SAMSUNG, or i may franchise my father's business and expand it from a chain of ten stores to 50+ across the nation.</p>
<p>Look at some real stats and get back to me. You sat obsessed morons are all so focused on the students you are forgetting about the school's academic quality which is a heck of a lot more than just the students' stats. No academic in the world would rank NYU above UM as a university. You morons are confusing popularity aka "selectivity" with QUALITY.
BTW the jock ref was a little joke about UM's huge sports reputation but you were too dumb to get it.</p>
<p><a href="http://thecenter.ufl.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://thecenter.ufl.edu/</a></p>
<p>"Now, i have heard from many that Stern is harder to get into than Michigan LSA (not ross), and Michigan LSA is harder to get into than NYU CAS.
And they are all easier to get into than Indiana."</p>
<p>Its logical to assume Stern is harder to get into than Ross given the selectivity differences between NYU and UMich.</p>
<p>As far as NYU CAS vs. UMich LSA, NYU CAS's average SAT score was a 1370, and average gpa was 3.8..and this was 4 years ago. </p>
<p>NYU CAS has become even more selective since, the avg. SAT of this year's ED admit was 1410. Like I said before, I'm not aware of any evidence that shows UMich LSA is above this, especially when you consider a good portion of the top UMich people are in the engineering school. </p>
<p>I don't know how you can say they are all easier to get into than Indiana...this makes zero sense to me...where are you getting this info? Almost all NYU frosh live in dorms...the school is the second largest landowner in the city behind the Catholic Church, while NYU doesn't have a campus as isolated as Michigan or Indiana, there is a definitely an NYU bubble in Greenwich Village (the school pretty much owns everything around Wash Sq.). FYI, NYU undergrad is the biggest feeder into NYU's MBA program.</p>
<p>That being said, if you're going to work for your dad and thats your ultimate goal, I guess it won't matter where you go. </p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Uh, that Leiter study has NYU ranked 10 spots ahead of Michigan in terms of student quality. I think you just showed who the real idiot is, barrons.</p>
<p>"Uh, that Leiter study has NYU ranked 10 spots ahead of Michigan in terms of student quality."</p>
<p>Not only that, but the ranking is 4 years old!...NYU has gotten more selective since, and UMich has at best stayed the same.</p>
<p>Furthermore, popularity does not mean selectivity retard aka Barrons. The 2 words essentially convey different concepts. Example, UMich gets more applications than Harvard (ie is more popular), so by your logic it is clearly more selective...well thats just flat out WRONG! Look, I don't care for popluarity, but the fact remains NYU is more selective than University of Michigan.</p>
<p>Selectivity retard?</p>
<p>NYCsouljaAC --</p>
<p>To answer your question, I think that if you go to IU you will get a wonderful education. The only thing about choosing IU over Stern or Ross is that you will have less margin for error in terms of getting a top-flight job after you graduate. For example, while Bain may recruit 10 students from Ross and Stern, they may only take 1 or 2 from Kelley. (Note: I just made up the figures for demonstrative purposes, but I think that you get my point)</p>
<p>Is getting a job at a top flight consulting or investment banking firm the only way of assuring admission into a top flight MBA program? Heavens no. In fact, most top-flight MBA programs want a mix of students from a variety of businesses. Now, it is probably still true that consulting and investment banking are over-represented in business school, but that may be more a reflection of the fact that these students may, on average, have higher undergraduate gpa's and higher average GMAT scores than those applicants from the manufacturing sector. </p>
<p>I will use my wife's MBA experience as an example. She graduated from Miami University in Ohio (she was not a business major) and worked for a small (at that time) medical records software company. She applied to six top-flight MBA programs and was accepted at three of them. She had a stellar gpa and GMAT scores, but did not come from the ranks of consulting or investment banking. While probably a plurality of her class came from those two fields, it certainly was not the majority of her class. While many of her fellow students did their undergraduate study at Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc., there were students who graduated from many other schools, including St. Olaf, Taylor University, BYU, and the University of Kentucky, just to name a few. </p>
<p>To throw a bit more gasoline on this fire about NYU vs. The University of Michigan, the latest New York Review of Books had an interested excerpt that made me think of this thread. The quote from the article entitled, "Colleges: An Endangered Species" spoke about NYU's use of adjunct faculty:</p>
<p>"Today, as David Kirp points out in Shakespeare, Einstein, and the Bottom Line, New York University, which has lately made a big (and largely successful) push to join the academic front rank, employs "adjunct" facultypart-time teachers who are not candidates for tenureto teach 70 percent of its undergraduate courses. The fact that these scandalously underpaid teachers must carry the teaching burdennot just at NYU, but at many other institutionsspeaks not to their talent or dedication, but to the meagerness of the institution's commitment to the teaching mission."</p>
<p>Adjunct faculty members are doing 70% of undergraduate teaching at NYU? While the article points out that this problem is not exclusively NYU's, that percentage certainly seems mighty high to me. How does such a heavy use of adjunct faculty impact the quality of education an undergraduate can expect to receive at NYU? Does a student feel ripped off if 3 out 4 classes they take during their college career are not taught by a tenured faculty members? Just curious.</p>
<p>Icemaker, I agree with you 100%. Indiana University is a great program and a great place to spend 4 undergraduate years. As you say, the OP will have to work a little harder at finding a great job and there is less margin for error, but who can argue with saving enough money to pay for his MBA one day.</p>
<p>from what I have read in this thread, jwblue has made Alexandre look quite foolish...The whole "USNWR Reputation Rating" argument was a very weak one, Alex.</p>
<p>Actually UM has gotten much more selective over the last four years. The average SAT is up about 30 points and the percent in the top 10% of the class is up from around 60% to 90%.</p>
<p>70% of classes taught by underqualified adjuncts at NYU?? Not very impressive. NYU may be more popular and more selective but those things do not always equal a better university.</p>
<p>Quakerman says "haithman is a huge tool" post #32</p>
<p>First of all quakerman the fact that you cant even post anything of any intristic value shows in that post. Let it be known to all of quakerman's very broad and sophisticated college graduate vocabulary. You truly have learnt a lot in college havent you. (In case you couldnt tell I am being sarcastic.)</p>
<p>Secondly, if you are indeed in the business world I would really want to know what exactly you do. Probably an ibanking peon. Figures from the lack of vocabulary or producing anything of importance. </p>
<p>Thirdly, why dont you grace us with your business knowledge and mantra here. I think you could definately do better than say "haithman is a huge tool". For a guy who claims to be a college graduate you are severly lacking social AND communication skills. </p>
<p>I have nothing against stern or michigan. But it definately annoys me to see some random person on the internet post messages that personally attack others. </p>
<p>Good day to you and may you pick up a fourth grade book. Definately will help your communication skills.</p>
<p>If the business world was composed only of investment banking and consultants, the OP would be wise to attend NYU. </p>
<p>But guess what. . it isn't. If he/she works hard it shouldn't be that tough to get an MBA at NYU (or a better school) with an undergraduate degree from Indiana. Plenty of first-rate companies recruit there; companies that will look just fine on an MBA application.</p>
<p>A word about adjuncts. I can tell you for a fact that all the core academic classes at NYU are taught by tenured profs...and larger classes are divided into recitations. Yes, some adjuncts are used, but no more than any other school in the same size range, and certainly less than many others. In fact, NYU has a better student/faculty ratio, more smaller classes, and less larger classes than both UMich and Indiana (US News). </p>
<p>Stern tends to have more adjuncts than some of the other NYU schools, and this is a VERY good thing...these adjuncts are CEO's, high level execs, and some of the top people in the financial world....since these people have actually suceeded in business, I would rather have them teaching me about it than some tenured prof. whose spent his entire life in the ivory tower being a monday morning quarterback.</p>
<p>Barrons, I wouldn't call UMich going from having a 53% in 'acceptance rate in '03 to a 62% acceptance rate in '04 and basically having the same SAT score as getting more selective. </p>
<p>Furthermore, I'm fully aware that you don't have to be from wall st. to get into a top business school...I acknowledge this for the 790th time, its not an issue. However, the fact remains, people who worked in finance are disproportonatly represented in top business schools....and schools know getting a job doing i-banking at Lehman Brothers is harder than working for XYZ corp's marketing department, and this will be a factor in admissions.</p>
<p>"No academic in the world would rank NYU above UM as a university." </p>
<p>The Revealed Preferences ranking has NYU above UMich. I guess Harvard and Wharton professors (the ones were behind that ranking) don't count as members of the academic world to you. </p>
<p>The Consus Group ranking also has NYU 11 spots above UMich.</p>
<p>And you know what the Concus group deals with...? Business and law. Outside of these two things, NYU has a slight edge, mathematics, and a few other scattered fields, Michigan beats NYU. </p>
<p>And RP has Notre Dame over Swarthmore, Pomona and Duke, among other examples. While it may be a fine university, you aren't going to find many people who are going to say ND is better than Duke. RP isn't anything close to perfect.</p>
<p>For the record, I would choose NYU over Indiana and UMich for business (but not much else) <em>if</em> you can afford it; then again, YMMV depending on how much you like NYC.</p>
<p>The RP rankings are based on the decisions of hs kids. Next</p>
<p>Interesting ACADEMIC ranking-Biz schools</p>