<p>Based on what Field has said about her child, this student may have issues that sending him far away is not a good idea. </p>
<p>Field, have you spoken to our kid’s GC and gotten them to “jawbone” them? That is more important to FINISH school than where you start? I know ours will and can do that. </p>
<p>If child can live at home, is there a SUNY or CUNY he can commute to? Could he apply there?</p>
<p>Respectfully, please don’t be so sure that the Northeast offers a year’s tuition and dorm for anything near $16,000 a year, at least not when you live in NJ. Working within a 5 or 6 hour drive of our home, we are talking about $25,000 minimum for a state school and $35,000 minimum for a bottom-tier private school, knowing that bottom-tier grads often end up in jobs that can also be had by HS grads. That is really what it costs around here. And, yes, of course we are also talking about continuing with his living expenses, medical, dental, clothing, car insurance, etc.</p>
<p>We have a family friend who completed his degree in 8 semesters, to his credit, and studied finance, a practical major. He went to the kind of private school that takes kids who are a half-step below the ones who go to the lower-level state schools. They paid $45,000 per year, with grandparental help, an inheritance, and loans out the wazoo. He is now delivering pizzas. It seems that the financial industry is not impressed with “finance majors” who never took calculus, and were taught to recite a few platitudes about finance. By contrast, another family friend double-majored in a foreign language and math at an elite northeastern LAC (about $60,000/year). She was snapped right up by the investment banks. They know that with her proven analytic ability, she will easily grasp the concepts of finance.</p>
<p>I also would not want to be a kid far from home stranded in a dorm at what is essentially a commuter school or suitcase school for people from that region. It is a recipe for loneliness and unhappiness. Unhappy kids generally do not succeed academically. And yet the adjustment to adult life also involves learning how to get happy where you need to be.</p>
<p>I do agree, it is often better for young adults to find out the hard way (and sometimes they do well, even when common experience would not suggest it). But part of being an adult is having to get the funding to do what you want to do, whether it is buying a house, starting a business, or proposing some project to your boss at work. If we are being asked to spend even $25,000 on a year at a school (hard-earned money that is making a one-way trip out the door, never to be replaced), and we know that if the year goes badly he will no longer have the money to complete the bachelor’s degree, then he needs to convince us that this is a reasonable thing to do. The best way to convince us would be to get decent grades in high school and show us that you can manage time responsibly. The next best way would be to demonstrate those qualities at County, where any missteps would not ruin his chances of ultimately getting the degree.</p>
<p>I realize I’m coming out differently on this than you might, but this dialogue has helped me to clarify my reasoning, and I thank you for engaging in it with me. Any other thoughts you have, I will consider.</p>
<p>fieldsports, it seems to me that you have considered all sides of this problem, and I agree with your reasoning that a CC will probably best for your son. However, since he is only in 10th grade (I think that’s right) he obviously wants to do what his friends are doing and has no clue about money and affordability (I’ve got me one of those too). You are the parent (and the payer of bills) you have the right and obligation to tell your son exactly what you will pay and for what program you will pay. Good luck.</p>
<p>My last post was in response to mncollegemom, but I thank you all for this input. This is a dialogue that I can’t have with a group of parents here in town – it would not be fair to my son, and it’s a bit too personal for acquaintances, much easier to be forthright about finances when it is anonymous. The Montana schools would be a prospect for us to consider for the second phase of college. Too far, too soon in the fall after 12th, I’m sensing. And he also needs some academic direction before he can finalize schools. But yes, he does love to ski. And surf. Football. Lacrosse. It’s the studying that does not come so easily! He is also a lifeguard, certified to teach swimming, and volunteers in the pool, teaching swimming to the autistic in his off-season. A nice kid.</p>
<p>My tax lawyer friend who started at County absolutely BLESSES her experience there, because she would have entered a major university slotted for a completely different academic area, and probably have stayed in that slot. She credits her County college advisor’s experience with people across all majors – the advisor said, I know what you think you want, but I see you in business – please try some accounting. It changed her path, and she is happy. This is another reason I don’t underestimate the CCs.</p>
<p>Another family friend’s kid is a lot like mine – struggled through a local prep school – $35,000 a year for Catholic high school and his father was on the board – bottom of the class. He went to our home county college afterward, took only three courses, and for the first time in his life, he liked school and was able to manage the load. He is still a part-timer, and now making As. He is now 21, still living at home and working toward the 2-year degree, and does not ever expect to live in a dorm because he would be moving in at the age where everybody is finishing, but he does expect to transfer to one of the local 4-year schools and finish as a commuter. Another reason I don’t write off a strong county college too quickly.</p>
<p>It is insane when you can spend $50,000 (unreimbursed) on special help starting at age 5, stand ready to spend another $80,000 to $100,000, and still nobody thinks it’s enough!</p>
<p>Thank you all for comments, and I welcome any further thoughts.</p>
<p>“In the process, I realized that my goal is not simply to get him into a school somewhere, or even to get him through a school somewhere with a diploma. My goal is for him to be 25, debt-free, living under his own roof on his own earnings, having used our money wisely to become educationally qualified for a line of work that he likes and is well-enough suited for that he can succeed with it.”</p>
<p>Excellent. Now to help him see that the dream is not the college, but rather the career and life after college. Maybe a hard sell for a 10th grader, but worth a try.</p>
<p>I went through a lot of the same thought processes as fieldsports when Happykid was the age of fieldsportsson. We had/have similar limitations (GPA & test scores not good enough for merit aid, unaffordable EFC, etc.), and determined that if Happykid did not find a scholarship that would bring her cost down to the equivalent of living at home and commuting to the local CC, she would have to go to the CC. She was slightly dreamy-eyed about University X in 11th grade, but by 12th grade did not have any interest in applying anywhere other than the CC. She will graduate from there this spring, and has just finished her transfer applications. We’ve kept up the money discussion through her time at the CC, and she knows that if Dream College doesn’t cough up the money, she will attend In-State U.</p>
<p>I expect it will be hard to hold the financial line if Dream College coughs up almost-enough money rather than the expected (I ran the NPC) nowhere-near-enough, or the remotely possible definitely-enough. But, hold it we will have to. We just don’t have the resources to go over $X.</p>
<p>What to do about the pals applying to colleges, visiting colleges, attending college fairs? Here’s what we did:
Happykid went to one smaller college fair, and carried with her a list of the schools represented there that had the desired college major. Most of the reps couldn’t answer her questions about that major, which rather ticked her off and made her lose interest in those particular schools. A couple did respond positively and sent her occasional bits of mail.
No PSAT, SAT, or ACT. Happykid is a bad standardized tester, and we figured she could wait until she knew where she was applying to take the SAT or ACT. Since she was headed to the CC, no exams other than the ACCUPLACER at the CC, and AP English Lit.
Once safely ensconced at the CC, I ran up a list of 4-year schools that offer her major and are reasonably transfer friendly. During Spring Break last year we made a two day trips to in-state schools, and during the summer we visited two out of state schools. That was enough for her. She isn’t interested in visiting any more now that she has In-State U and Dream College. So yes, her transfer application list is only two schools long.</p>
<p>Sounds like you’ve given this a lot of thought. Just a few thoughts I have:</p>
<p>It seems awfully unrealistic for a 10th grade boy to have real career goals. Or any career goals.</p>
<p>Many many many students mature and improve their school performance from 10th to 12th grade. Especially boys. Also also when ADD is involved. I didn’t realize this until I started frequenting CC years ago. How or who he is now is unlikely to be how or who he is in two or three years.</p>
<p>Is there a reason you need to sort this all out or make a decision now? Can you make just one decision for this coming year and revisit the situation, with a new decision/commitment and year from now and again in 12th grade? And in the process, possibly use this tiered decision process to possibly push your son in the right direction? </p>
<p>He’s a young man, also with LD, and it seems making a long term plan now for him is premature as much may change. </p>
<p>Finally, I think it would be a cruel experience for him if he were to visit colleges and invest the huge amount of work in applying to them, and he were to possibly get in…only then for you to say no. </p>
<p>I sense an underlying frustration you have with your son. I might be wrong but if you are frustrated, it might be playing a non-rational role in your thought process.</p>
<p>Just to add a little around-the-US perspective on our situation here – the FAFSA may say “no aid”, but in the NYC area, if you want to be in a good school district, even at the the FAFSA-no-aid income level you can be in a small house next to the train tracks or the highway. I am very grateful for everything we have, and I know just living in the US we are fortunate to enjoy a level of comfort, safety and freedom that is more than most people will ever know. But it’s not a situation of parents choosing McMansions or BMWs over their kids’ educations.</p>
<p>There are 68 schools in NY, NJ and PN that have total costs, tuition/housing, etc. under $15,000/year. I don’t know what reciprocity agreements there are in NJ though. There are 11 schools in NJ that have costs under $15,000.</p>
<p>I will agree that Bemidji is a suitcase college but there are kids that stay on campus. SW MN State has more kids that stay on campus over the weekend, plenty go home, but it is a busy campus on the weekends. I am sure there are</p>
<p>Look at it this way, if he didn’t have these LD, would you limit his college choices? Would you make him stay at home to save money? What if he was an average “B” student, not eligible for merit really. Would you make him stay home?</p>
<p>Doing another search…because I am procrastinating :). Did a search on schools with costs under 10,000 nationwide that has specific programs for LD’s. One school in WV, Mountain State has 31% of it’s student body from out of state. That would leave a lot of kids staying on weekends. Southwest Christian College in Texas has 85% of out of state schools. Both of these schools admit 100% of students. The Texas school is tiny, 250 kids TOTAL. </p>
<p>Doing a quick search on NJ County Colleges–total costs are in the $5000 range–add in driving back and forth, still paying for food, etc. and you are in the same ballpark as the schools above for costs.</p>
<p>Starbright, two good points – what’s the rush, and am I frustrated. Yes and yes.</p>
<p>The rush is not to make a final decision, but simply to decide whether to use the little vacations we have when colleges are in session (and his sports coaches will let him go – rare) to swing through schools and see them. He has asked to see some. I am comfortable taking him to as many as HE wants, just with the caveat, this is probably for after County. Indeed, County is his second bite at the apple to get good grades and become a transfer candidate at nicer schools that would not likely take him straight out of HS.</p>
<p>He asked me to take him to Lafayette on that basis last summer, and it was beautiful, and I was very proud to hear him raise his hand on the tour and ask if people are ever admitted as transfers from County. They said “of course”. He is not remotely a candidate today; you need a full plate of APs and great SATs. And over $200,000. But with As from County, and paying for only two years, who knows? So I guess it’s good we went.</p>
<p>Am I frustrated? Well, blow through the equivalent of one year at Lafayette on tutors, know that you are a full payor for all college with more than one kid, seek out the most highly-qualified of special ed tutors at $125/hour and then be fired by the tutor because she can’t get him to engage. Watch him have an F in biology and then miraculously go to a B in a period of 10 minutes because the teacher literally sat for those 10 minutes and Cleaned. Out. His. Bag. And found all the missing work, in the bottom of the bag, which was done correctly but never handed in. And think about all the other teachers who will never clean out the bag, and shouldn’t have to, and would just let the F stand. And remove all TVs from your house for years, in an effort to help with his education, so that you yourself literally cannot watch the Superbowl or the election returns. And then find him not doing homework because he’s playing with a paperclip. And maybe you would not be frustrated . . . but I am . . . I love him a ton, but it is maddening.</p>
<p>Our oldest sounds a lot like your DS, except he didn’t have any LD’s. What you describe is NOT unusual for 15 year old boys, the LD’s do complicate that though. Realize that most colleges have FREE services if the have LD programs. Also, why are you spending the money on the tutor if he isn’t engaging. Sometimes pushing too hard has the opposite effect. </p>
<p>Also, for initial tours, go in the summer. Give him an idea of what the campuses feel like and so what if classes aren’t in session. That is what we have done so far and it is working out very well. We don’t have time in their schedules to make any college tours during the school year that are more than a few hours drive (something we can do in a day).</p>
<p>I feel your frustrations, I have LIVED your frustrations but our oldest is now employed in a field he is enjoying. He still lives at home only because he is saving to buy a house and so we have a dog sitter as needed :). He will be buying a house in the next 6 months or so probably. He has a friend lined up to rent a room from him so that will be nice for him as well. As a sophomore in high school we pretty much figured he would be saying “would you like fries with that” for the rest of his life because his backpack was full of homework done and not turned in…but if he LIKED the class all his work would be in and he would ACE every test. I TOTALLY understand.</p>
<p>from mncollegemom – Look at it this way, if he didn’t have these LD, would you limit his college choices? Would you make him stay at home to save money? What if he was an average “B” student, not eligible for merit really. Would you make him stay home?</p>
<p>My thoughts – There would still be a budget. There would still be concerns about the marketability of a bachelor’s degree from an open-enrollment or bottom-tier institution (not to mention the on-campus recruiting and the placement office). And having looked a lot of places, recognizing that higher ed is a business, I have found that the schools that charge significantly less than the going rate for their region, are below that rate for a reason. Whether that reason can be overlooked, is an individual matter. Personal safety in some of the neighborhoods that are popping up on your searches in the Northeast, I wouldn’t expect you to be familiar . . . but there’s a lot to know before sending your kid away for what should be a healthy, positive experience.</p>
<p>I have found that people do not commonly send a twelfth grader out to select and negotiate the purchase of a new car by himself. Even if the kid will be the one driving it. But the car, if it turns out to be a bad deal, is at least resalable. The education is more like a seat in a theater – they give you space, certain things happen, and then your money is gone and if it was an unwise choice, too bad; there is nothing to resell.</p>
<p>fieldsports- whatever you do, please do not let your son hear you speak ill of lower tiered colleges. Who knows, he may end up at one. But more importantly is that in the minds of many high school kids, community colleges rank lower than lower tiered 4 year schools. He needs to feel good about his future.</p>
<p>Speaking as a parent of a kid with LDs and as a college professor who teaches at a four year public that gets plenty of transfers from “county”…</p>
<p>The students who come from the local CCs (and there may be multiple within reasonable commuting distance from your home, which would still give him some choices) are often very well prepared. </p>
<p>At the same time, however, please don’t discount your local public four year school. It’s a step up financially from a “county,” but perhaps your child could commute for the first couple of years, which would save a chunk of change and allow you to offer a safety net for those LD issues. </p>
<p>But if you’re unable to afford the expensive private schools and he’s not in the running for any scholarships (how about SAT optionals?), I agree with the advice not to let him apply there. </p>
<p>Kids talk big at the beginning of senior year, but once the financial packages come through, a lot of those who thought they were headed for NYU or similar end up at State.</p>
<p>Fieldsports, I would be willing to take a look at colleges with the understanding that they are for a future transfer from CC. As the mom of a boy with LD and few academic skills, I can advise you to let your son prove himself at the college level at county. My son finally graduated with a BS when he was 31 years old. Most semesters he took around 12 credits and he went to school year round. You are correct to think you need to make your budget last, because his path may not be a straight one. And if he is under-performing with all your support at home, I can’t imagine a disabilities dept. in an away college getting better results.</p>
<p>We live in a competitive Philadelphia school district where you might think that all the kids are going to ivies. The truth is that, although 99% do go to college, at least 10% of them will start at CC. I believe those kids just don’t talk about it. Good luck!</p>
<p>In NJ it is almost guaranteed that you can transfer to a 4 yr state school if you do reasonable well in county. They have articulation agreements regarding transfers if you complete your Associates. You do have to be accepted, but transfers with Associates get first consideration. A 3.0 is a decent GPA that should get you admitted depending on your major. Education and Engineering are quite competitive. You should contact your COunty College to see what transfer options there are. The guidance counselor at the HS should also have some info.</p>
<p>State University is probably going to be the best transfer option (if he does well at County.) It is good to know in advance that courses will transfer. He can always do trade school later if bachelors doesn’t happen.</p>
<p>My oldest started at our local community college. Due to the economy and the ever climbing competitive nature of admissions he was astonished at the number of familiar faces he saw there. Kids he thought for sure would have been off to four year U’s. Even more so joined him after they had not so great starts at their four year U’s and either their folks brought them home or their U’s sent them home. </p>
<p>If you have a good community college that’s awesome. NEVER let your son hear you speak down about it. He needs to feel good about his future as the stepping stone that it is. Back him up, support him, and keep your negative feelings about it to yourself. You might start by calling it something other than ‘county’. I’m with the previous poster who mentioned it sounds like a jail. Surely it has a name. I hope you use it with him when discussing school options.</p>
<p>I don’t know if you mentioned what courses he is taking, but consider that he may need remedial courses if he doesn’t score above 500 (avg requirement) in M and CR or test out on placement tests. This will add to your expense and timeframe at any school. A surprising number of non LD kids need these classes.</p>
<p>I guess that your mind is made up no matter what your son wants and that is really sad. There are plenty of so called “lower tier” schools that still produce very employable people, they just don’t have the snob factor that other schools have, on that you are correct. Of all of our friends that are in C-level positions at various companies around the state and country however, none of them went to “top tier” schools.</p>
<p>fieldsports, I have a couple of thoughts as a SUNY parent:</p>
<p>First, not sure where the $25K for state schools is coming from but that number seems very high to me. One of my kids is a junior at the most expensive SUNY school (UB) and actual costs are around $20K per year. She is in a health profession so has expensive texts and lab fees and lives off campus in a beautiful 3 BR townhome with 2 roommates. Make sure you’re not taking the SUNY COA too literally - look at tuition and fees as fixed expenses, room/board are highly dependent on how many meals/roommates, health insurance ($2K/year at UB) is not needed if kid is covered on their parent’s plan, and the rest (books, personal expenses) you budget and manage as you go along. My kids have always been responsible for their own travel and personal expenses and have no trouble living within their means, either working a few hours a week on campus or saving up during summers/breaks. </p>
<p>I have never heard the term “county” before either but assume you’re talking about regular SUNY CC’s. You may want to look at some of them, and the SUNY technical colleges (which may offer 2 and 4 year programs), that offer dorms for students if the “sleep away” experience is important to your son. I believe the rate for full time CC tuition is $3480/year (just submit a Certificate of Residency from your county if the CC is out of county in order to avoid the surcharge), so even with room and board it’s not likely to be a budget buster. You can find out which CC’s have residence halls by visiting [suny.edu</a> - The State University of New York](<a href=“http://www.suny.edu%5Dsuny.edu”>http://www.suny.edu). </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>njfootballmom makes a good point, remedial coursework is likely to be needed. That has been another factor in our thinking. He is not expected to have high SATs, is expected to have to take the Accuplacer, and we need to see Accuplacer scores before we know that he will get college credit in exchange for his tuition money.</p>
<p>I have gotten a wealth of comments from this thread, and I thank you all. We have digressed from the original question, and in an effort to be open and forthright I have revisited and explained the reasons behind the two underlying postulates – that if the young man wishes to pursue an academic degree (which is not the only path to a good livelihood), the finances and the academics dictate a start at County.</p>
<p>Depending on what part of NJ njfootballmom comes from, she might back me up on this – it is not pejorative around here to call it “County”. Nobody around here refers to the jail as “county” (or calls soft drinks “pop”, or puts their groceries in a “sack”, etc.) The people my son knows don’t even think about the jail. And I’m not using the name of the specific county on here, in the interest of S’s anonymity on a public forum. </p>
<p>The other important thing to me, is that I do not believe everybody needs to get a bachelor’s degree. I know plumbers and landscapers and painters who make very good money, more than most people I know with bachelors’ degrees – and they have to be smart to do what they do, but they didn’t go to residential 4-year colleges, and if their families had made big expenditures in their behalf on 4-year college, they might never have been able to afford to set up their businesses. I hold them up as an alternate model to my son, and I belittle nobody’s choice of schools – but I also believe (and this may be blasphemy on College Confidential) that college is a business, not a religion; it is a business where life-changing amounts of money are spent with no assurance of a return, often by people who are ill-informed and fearful, and the young people most crippled by their dealings with colleges are often those at the lower end of the academic spectrum. Caveat emptor.</p>