<p>He did his stats a while back… I will have to look at them… Our school does not give out rank but you are right he is not top 5%. He is not looking at Med school. He is probably looking at ending up in Business (marketing… more the creative end etc.) His SAT’s are low that is why it is a long shot. He has taken a rigorous curriculum (mostly honors and some AP) where he lacks is probably the writing which we all know is very important. Again it is probably the fact that it takes the longest for him. His math/science come easy. Otherwise he has a strong resume, great essays, great teacher recs, lots of volunteer, leadership etc. And yes being Asian is a negative… He is half and in fact his common app is about how his two grandfathers (Chinese and German/Irish heritages - diversity) influenced his life. I think it is a really great essay. His LA teacher reviewed it and also likes it. Again if it seems like I am posting I want this, I want that… we are a close family. I would never force my child into something he didn’t want. Hence the post. His brother’s stats were 2200 and 4th in his class (won lots of scholarships, won Principals award…everyone loves him… he is also sports minded, music minded… they are very similar except that One stresses too much and the other not at all). Son S wants big school, lots of intramural sports, great gym, campus… does not want city school. Wants to make lots of money … no joke that is really his ambition. His hook is that he has a sibling (and yes it does seem to make a difference at this school and that his fit for the college he is applying too is well matched maybe sports management or human resources again most 17 year olds aren’t sure). He is applying/applied to safeties, mids, two reaches and of course this very big reach. When I was at the school moving my oldest son in I spoke to some admins and they definitely did say it didn’t hurt to apply. It never really does. Also what really started it as someone has all ready figured out is that I am talking about Cornell is the orientation that my oldest son had during move in. Dave Price (weatherman for Channel 2 news, prior to that fox 5 if you are in the NJ, NY area)… Dave Price reminded me of my middle son. He was so funny that I felt like I was at a 2 hour comedy show (with lots of good info mixed in). I kept saying this is son S to my other son. Dave Price mentioned his academics were not the greatest but he worked at the radio station, made the most of his time there etc. etc. I wish son S had been there but my husband took him up to Syracuse (dual Newhouse, Business maybe husband went to Syracuse and BC (MBA) again his passion being more entertainment/sports with business background). Long story short Dave Price did the corporate thing but he always said the inner weather man wanted to come out… His 87’ Cornell ILR degree got him contacts and now he is where he wants to be. My husband would say I use one example but hey it can happen. I think he may have to pay his dues and work in what he may call a “boring” job but make a name for himself, work hard, make connections and explore the world for what he wants. Thanks J’adoube and midwesterner for your insight. In the end I think because we are submitting today I was getting nervous… to make this long shot a little closer we believe ED is the only way to go. We did not do any ED with oldest son because we needed to see how financial aid was and knew we would not commit to anything binding because of that. We do know however what Cornell would offer son 2 or close enough which makes that decision easier. Sorry I use the same screen name. It is just easier. I did the same for son 1. He would post his stuff and I would post under his name. My husband has his own account. You will find him mostly on the Financial Aid board… In this economy we can’t justify a lot of debt and lets face it career contacts are going to be huge. We were just at a Penn State info session (and yes he applied there too) they were rated #1 among recruiters… Can’t remember the exact statistic but if you are in a room of 300 people (some high number - impressive) would be from Penn State… Cornell will open doors too. We want to give him the best advantage to succeed but by not going broke… Will let you know how it all turns out. Again I really appreciate everyones input… thats what makes these boards so great. I have given this site out to everyone who is/will be sending a child too college. I have gotten more info here than any other site/guidance counselor etc. So thank you. I think the discussion has been useful.
Whale18’s mom (screen name don’t ask except 18 is his soccer #)</p>
<p>^ OP
Can you kindly break your post into paragraphs? Thats hard to read.</p>
<p>I think you can tell where S2 got his trouble writing. I have BSEE degree…again math/science ok not so much with the writing. I now work as an aide for special needs kids in a regular ed school (wanted to be home when my kids were home) and I still have trouble in 7th grade Language Arts lol… Could probably teach the Math better than the teachers though.<br>
PS Husband is Chinese (better writer) and I am the caucasian (better Math) backwards stereotypical…</p>
<p>Again very sorry for the run ons. I also talk a lot if you couldn’t guess.</p>
<p>Can you go back and edit the post and break it into paragraphs before the 20 min is up?
Thx</p>
<p>I think you are making a wise choice by having him apply ED. He is obviously very bright and I am sure that once he is there he will do what he needs to do. Cornell students are masters at multi tasking. Wishing your son lots of luck in his admission process.</p>
<p>walked away to make lunch can’t edit.</p>
<p>Summary: trying to find a balance between financially sound school and best career recruitment opportunities. </p>
<p>Someone said that it seemed like it was what I wanted… actually the opposite. When my husband took my son up to Syracuse I signed them up for the Newhouse (think Ted Koppel) school tour. He thought they were going to Whitman School of business. When they came back to Cornell to meet us my husband said he is “not paying $55,000 for him to be a DJ in Sioux City Idaho”. If I could I would. Is it practical NO… Yes I want him to be happy therefore the compromise between my son’s ambition to be as I said the next Ryan Seacrest(American Idol) or Jeff Probst (Survivor) with a solid business foundation mixed with electives (which Cornell allows a lot of freedom) in music, sports, health/nutrition who knows…</p>
<p>Additional comments: </p>
<p>*large school gives more opportunities to change your mind</p>
<p>*applying to a wide range increases your chances to get in somewhere. It is a crapshoot. Son 1 got into Cornell, lots of other tier1’s, waitlisted at UVA, Chicago and flat out rejected at Georgetown. Believe it or not son 1 was going to a tier 2 school that offered him a Presidential until that April 1st date came. Couldn’t justify the money for the other tier1s.</p>
<p>*Son 1 didn’t even think he wanted Cornell… went to visit because he was being recruited for soccer. Decided he did not want to play D1 (plays intramural now). Applied anyway RD just because (he wanted City and big Rah Rah neither of which Cornell really is). When I picked him up for Fall Break last week he said this is the best place ever. He is so happy. </p>
<p>*Son 2 is a better soccer player than son 1 and could probably get recruited somewhere. How do athletic recruits fare at IVY’s?? Don’t know… but my kids have decided they are going for academics and just playing sports for fun.</p>
<p>*Was more worried about son 1 at Cornell because he does stress so much (yes I will say it “The suicide school”) Had lots of talks about how nothing would ever disappoint us. Luckily he is so well rounded and social he has had no problems. The first thing I asked him after a week at school was how do you feel you fit? Are you top, bottom or middle? He said middle. I said good. Cornell drills it into you when you go for orientation in light of all the suicides they had last year that you were a big fish in a small pool, now you are a big fish with lots of other big fish. </p>
<p>*Side note he has gotten above 95’s on all his prelims so far. He told us that far more smarter kids than him were overwhelmed and flunking. Couldn’t handle it. Hence son2 if he got in would be happy with B’s and C’s doesn’t stress even if he isn’t academically the brightest.</p>
<p>Other observations: </p>
<p>College process stinks… Not any easier the second time around. I took my SATs once. No tutors, classes. Applied to 3 schools. Now you have to be either lucky in application pools of over 30,000, nothing is really a safety anymore (Rutgers certainly isn’t in NJ), hardly any schools give merit aid so middle class stinks, economy stinks. I am sitting in our study that has 4 computers … sad I know. I am killing time with you guys while S2 writes his last essay. Husband is filling out CSS which Cornell wants Nov. 1st. Daughter is on laptop doing science lab. Beautiful day in NJ … we are all inside. </p>
<p>Hope breaking it up helps… but still long I apologize. But if anyone is still reading thanks for letting me vent.</p>
<p>You still seem awfully concerned with the school being “an Ivy.” As if there aren’t plenty of opportunities at many, many schools in this country. The cream always rises to the top.</p>
<p>Good luck, and thanks for sharing with us! That’s the glory of CC ;)</p>
<p>Don’t sweat it. The hardest part about being at an Ivy is getting in. You can work hard or not. (Many kids do work very hard once they get there, but that is who they are.) If your kid gets in, he will do fine. You may find that many of the schools considered just below an ivy are a lot less forgiving for “lazy” kids.</p>
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<p>Sigh. I have no dog in the fight when it comes to Syracuse, but what makes you think that someone who goes to Syracuse would “only become a DJ in Sioux City, Idaho” (by which I think you mean Iowa, not Idaho – really, different states)? </p>
<p>Where do you people all come up with this assumption that only a handful of schools provide opportunities and if you don’t go there, you’re out of luck and you’ll be destined to nothing? America doesn’t work that way. I think you are putting Asian cultural sensibilities onto American realities. </p>
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<p>He needs to be the one to determine where he ED’s, not you. Trust me - my S is ED’ing to a place that makes me very nervous, but it’s his college career and his swing at the baseball bat, not mine. I already applied to colleges years ago.</p>
<p>this whole thread calls for an “oy vey”…sorry, had to say that</p>
<p>Just going to add… although by this point it might be irrelevant - but of the Ivy’s, only one is listed in Princeton Review’s list of schools where kids study the most and that’s Princeton at #10.</p>
<p>^ Tell that to my sons who are at Cornell. My son who graduated MIT said Cornell was the closest school to MIT in terms of the level of work for engineers, and hard sciences. He has friends who have attended all of the Ivy’s and many of the top schools and he respects the Cornell grads far above the others.</p>
<p>Thanks for the paragraphs, OP. Much easier on the eyeballs :)</p>
<p>If Cornell is for sure his top choice and you can afford it no matter what, then go for the ED. HE sounds like a plenty hard worker and rises to the challenge. No worries there. BUT, if it isn’t for SURE his tip top choice, or if there are any financial concerns, don’t apply ED. Thats pretty basic. Nothing new there. As for majors, plenty of opportunity to change majors a million times at lots of schools, so no worries about the big/small issue for change of majors possibilities. IF he is interested in business and/or journalism, Syracuse is a good thought, actually. I am sure you know that.</p>
<p>sorry Rodney… thought this was a good thread actually.</p>
<p>pizzagirl … yes I meant Iowa. And it was actually Syracuse who made the comment during the open house. They were being realistic. They said according to my husband they didn’t want students thinking they were walking out of Syracuse Newhouse school starting in NYC. Most internships, careers start in small places and you need to work your way up. I actually thought that was very fair of them to not give an unrealistic impression to their prospective students. He is still applying to Syracuse but with probably a dual degree Whitman/Newhouse which they offer. That is going to be RD. We shall see financially because actually that is/was his first choice. I say was because he actually likes one of his reach schools better now after visiting.</p>
<p>momma-three It definitely depends on degree. My son says he sees the engineers up to all hours of the night as he is walking back from some social/frat event that I would probably rather not know about. PS I was an electrical engineer undergrad too at RPI and it was tough.</p>
<p>pizzagirl… I am not the asian and we are not concentrating on IVY for IVY sake but that they seem to be the best with Financial Aid (Cornell caps your loans and the rest will be made up with grants and with two in school at once we know where we will stand with them a lot better than even my state school which by the way gave my other son $1,000 don’t know if you know this but NJ schools/state are in big trouble… gave and took away Bloustein awards last year)… Again my point is trying to get him the best school that we can afford. There are plenty of great schools out there I don’t disagree. Son 1 got into BC early action (husband an alumni MBA) and it was his first choice. They gave us a $500 loan!!! for financial aid. No thank you. It was hard to tell him that we couldn’t justify it considering how hard he had worked for 4 years. Applying last year with him was an eye opener. I thought if you worked hard, saved, he worked etc you were doing the right thing. Boy was I wrong and I am not going to start a debate on this either don’t worry Rodney.</p>
<p>We now look at schools for their practicality. Investment/return. IVY schools do in fact have some of the best financial aid (especially Yale and Harvard). Tier 1 schools are mostly need based. </p>
<p>Done: If he by some chance gets into Cornell we can afford it. We are not applying to schools that in the end will have us owing so much money even if they are fantastic schools. We still have another child to go. I was having second thoughts about putting him in a position I hoped wasn’t over his head just because it would help financially. Thanks everyone for the last time. He is putting his final touches on his essay and by the end of the day it will be in.</p>
<p>whale-
I think Rodney’s “oy-vey” was a play on the term “Ivy”, and wit was clever and funny, Rodney!</p>
<p>I don’t mean to be harsh, but I think a lot of this worrying is for naught. The student’s scores are low for Cornell, and supposedly Asian kids are held to an even higher standard than non-Asians. </p>
<p>The son posted his stats at the end of August, so while they may be higher now if he’s retested, I think if they were much higher the mom would know and would have stated so…</p>
<p>*Gender: M
Race: Other - Chinese/Caucasian
Location: NJ
College Class Year: 2015
High School: Public
High School Type: sends some grads to top schools
Will apply for financial aid: Yes</p>
<p>Academics:</p>
<p>GPA - Unweighted: 0.00
GPA - Weighted: 3.95
Class Rank: top 5% (mom says this isn’t right )
Class Size: 250</p>
<p>Scores:</p>
<p>SAT I Math: 670
SAT I Critical Reading: 620
SAT I Writing: 600*</p>
<p>Cornell
Middle 50% of First-Year Students </p>
<p>SAT Critical Reading: 630 - 730 94%
SAT Math: 660 - 770 94%
SAT Writing: - - </p>
<p>The student’s stats are around the bottom 25% of students - which is where the special admits scores are…athletes, URMs, and other special admits. If this student’s stats are still similar to above, I’d say his chances are about 1 in a 100 of getting admitted ED anyway.</p>
<p>*Financial aid would also be a plus if he got in this school because we know exactly what we are dealing with and it was the best package for my other son…We do know however what Cornell would offer son 2 or close enough which makes that decision easier. *</p>
<p>When my husband took my son up to Syracuse I signed them up for the Newhouse (think Ted Koppel) school tour. He thought they were going to Whitman School of business. When they came back to Cornell to meet us my husband said he is “not paying $55,000 for him to be a DJ in Sioux City Idaho”.</p>
<p>Since it sounds like you qualify for a good amount of financial aid, why would you be paying $55k for Syracuse (or does Syracuse not give good aid).</p>
<p>Are you instate for Penn State? If not, why apply there? you’re not going to get any money from them. Either way…you’ll have to pay full freight for Penn State. </p>
<p>It seems to me that you’re taking a kid with good-but-not-ivy stats and trying to get him in simply for the great financial aid and “name” that you wouldn’t get elsewhere.</p>
<p>Son 1 got into BC early action (husband an alumni MBA) and it was his first choice. They gave us a $500 loan!!</p>
<p>I think you’re going to find this at many schools since most schools don’t have much aid to give. If BC only gave you a $500 loan, that suggests you have a high EFC. </p>
<p>What was Cornell’s pkg for your son? Did Cornell tell you what you could expect for 2 kids?</p>
<p>I do not think it’s useful, or verifiable necessarily, to use anecodotes and random student opinions with a limited database to compare one U (or college) with another. “Hard work” and “hard curriculum” depend on a number of factors, including the student’s own personal standards, the program at that school which is chosen by the student, the classmates in that program, the competitive atmosphere, the grading policies of the school or college, etc.</p>
<p>I also agree with others that it’s unhelpful (this is directed at the OP :)) to assume that a Reachy school (Ivy or not) will require significantly more sustained (read, “boring”) and disciplined application to study than a “non-Reachy” school. College is hard; it’s supposed to be. That’s why they call it postsecondary education and why a degree should mean something. So what I’m reading between the lines (forgive me if I’m “off,” OP) is that Mom has a gut concern about his untested college study skills, given his frequent breaks from study (many of them legitimate) in h.s., which he has coped with academically so far.</p>
<p>Except for studio art, most college majors require lots of “boring” (long) reading assignments, followed often by add’l (“boring”) research, some of it in a “boring” library, and further requiring long (“boring,” —read, tedious) writing & polishing of that writing. Welcome to the world of college. Mom has serious concerns, but those concerns apply to all colleges/U’s, whatever the “tier.”</p>
<p>If I had a dollar for every one of my students who has told me, in 10th, 11th, or even 12th grade, that he “will get it together [this, or next] year,” (i.e., when it “counts”) I would be a wealthy woman today. 100% of the time, that student, despite his insistence, has not gotten it together in time to make a difference even for high school performance. It’s all theoretical. Without the tested practice, there’s no predictability to the promises or assurances. However, on the non-gloomy side, what I have found is that those same students, when they speak with someone in a field they might be interested in, and hear what it takes to make it in that field (of study or of profession), do – often immediately – apply themselves. Concrete goals that can be visualized or personalized somehow seem to make a gigantic difference for many boys, especially.</p>
<p>If I were Mom, I would be taking son to every difficult college/U imaginable, have him hang out with the students there, and also, if possible, speak to adults in fields he might be interested in.</p>
<p>Just FYI, if he’s applying to Reachy privates, he will need recs. Chances are extremely strong that his teachers have seen that he "makes it’ but doesn’t apply full effort, despite any grades given. (A student who does the assignment in a fully satisfactory manner often gets an A, not necessarily a C. Depends on the teacher and that schools’ typical standards/expectations.) So I agree with others that worrying about acceptances may be premature.
:)</p>
<p>My oldest S graduated from Cornell with a 2.9 & not because the work was too hard for him. It took him 9 months to land a job in 2005 and that was when the economy was good. He applied to NYU’s MBA program 2 years ago and despite scoring in the 99+ percentile on the GMATs, was rejected.
My point is- B&C’s at Cornell are probably not going to get you what or where you want just because its Cornell.</p>
<p>One of my friends went to Cornell in the 1980s. It’s a big school. Looking back she regrets the fact that no profs ever encouraged her to work towards As (which she was capable of) rather than Bs. She thinkis that might have happened at other schools. I really don’t know - just thought I’d pass on the observation.</p>