Illinois Wesleyan VS Lawrence U

<p>Can people with some knowledge of these two colleges compare and contrast them? They are at the same net money at this point. We live in Chicago and d is torn between the two and she intends to study english and psychology. She also wants to play in the school orchestra on the side as a non music major.</p>

<p>I'll start with PR:</p>

<p>LU
<a href="http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/studentbody.asp?listing=1022663&LTID=1&intbucketid=%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/studentbody.asp?listing=1022663&LTID=1&intbucketid=&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Student Body
Enrollment: 1,429
Female: 55%
Out of State: 65%
International: 7%
African American: 2%
Asian: 3%
Caucasian: 76%
Hispanic: 2%
Native American: 0%</p>

<p>Admission Stats
Freshmen Returning for Sophomore Year: 88%
Freshmen Graduating in 4 years: 62%
Freshmen Graduating in 6 years: 79%
Students Going to Law School Upon Graduation: 2%
Students Going to Medical School Upon Graduation: 1%
Students Going to Business School Upon Graduation: 0%
Students Going to Graduate School Upon Graduation: 22%</p>

<p>What Lawrence Students Say About...</p>

<p>Student Body
Lawrence attracts "bright, motivated, overachievers who are also creative and innovative." They are enthusiastic about learning, often self-admittedly to the point of geekiness. One student writes, "The typical student at Lawrence was that dorky kid in your high school class who was reading Henry V for fun and writing grants to build energy gardens—and getting them." Another adds, "We are the band geeks, the drama nerds, the kids who went to French camp, the kids painting murals on the gym wall." While many here "are White and middle-class, we have a large number of international students from all over the world to accent our learning experience. Moreover, financial aid allows students from many demographic backgrounds to attend." Students agree that "discrimination here is almost a sin, with active campus groups for all races, sexual orientations, religious groups—you name it."</p>

<p>IWU
<a href="http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/studentbody.asp?listing=1023405&ltid=1&intbucketid=%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/studentbody.asp?listing=1023405&ltid=1&intbucketid=&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Illinois Wesleyan University
PO Box 2900 Phone: 309-556-3031
Bloomington, IL, 61702-2900 Fax: 309-556-3820
Website: www2.iwu.edu
Student Body
Enrollment: 2,139
Female: 58%
Out of State: 12%
International: 2%
African American: 5%
Asian: 4%
Caucasian: 82%
Hispanic: 3%
Native American: 0%</p>

<p>Admission Stats
Freshmen Returning for Sophomore Year: 92%
Freshmen Graduating in 4 years: 76%
Freshmen Graduating in 6 years: 80%
Students Going to Law School Upon Graduation: 3%
Students Going to Medical School Upon Graduation: 6%
Students Going to Business School Upon Graduation: 1%
Students Going to Graduate School Upon Graduation: 32%</p>

<p>What Illinois Wesleyan Students Say About...</p>

<p>Student Body
IWU draws heavily from the affluent suburbs of Chicago, attracting a student body that "is White," and "somewhat wealthy" although "There are many who do not fit this mold." Most "have very diverse interests, sometimes even majors that you never thought would be possible: music and science, foreign language and pre-professional science, and so on. Furthermore, they are usually involved in a diverse number of extracurricular activities: sports, clubs, organizations, etc." Students tell us that everyone here is "pretty easy-going, though if one is a bio or chem major, studying is constantly on the mind due to the amount needed to be memorized," though for many, "a long week of paper-writing and test taking is rewarded with a few long nights of debauchery." IWU also has a fair number of international students; one woman writes, "My floor alone has girls from Nigeria, Germany, and Bangladesh and there are other girls of Asian, Indian, and African descent as well."</p>

<p>Hi idic5 -
My D is very interesting in IWU and not interested in Lawrence. The main reason is that she has heard, or read, that there are 2 distinct student bodies at Lawrence, the musicians and non-musicians. Rightly or wrongly, she has the impression that music majors and other majors are better integrated at IWU, and non-music majors have more opportunity to become involved in music on campus. similar to your situation, she also plays an instrument and would like to continue studying it as a non-major. </p>

<p>I think they're both good schools - which has the prettier school colors? :^)</p>

<p>I'm trying to choose between these schools too.</p>

<p>LU has navy blue tshirts IWU has green :)</p>

<p>both are 80 some acres in an urban setting. appleton city is smaller at 72k than bloomington at 100 somethingk. LU is better integrated into the urban surroundings, being a quick walk to the center of town to get to the small coffee shops in order to get off campus for a change. IWU is a quick car ride or a (too) long walk to the center of town. </p>

<p>both are close to nice civic performing arts centers
LU (did wicked this yr; will do spamalot)
Fox</a> Cities P.A.C. A Gathering Place for the Community
IWU
Bloomington</a> Cultural District | Bloomington Center for the Performing Arts</p>

<p>LU has water (better feng shui?) next to it - the fox river. No water for IWU. IWU has newer buildings - an 80 in the the PR fire rating vs a 60 for LU. The architecture of IWU is consistant - traditional red brick with a fair amount of window space. LU is more of a pot pourri (pleasing nevertheless) of building styles with some inspired artistic looking angles and glass. LU has a new LEEDS student center coming online next yr that promises to look good. IWU alreadyh has a newer hansen center that is serviceable with space to watch movies and fits in well with the other buildings.</p>

<p>consistant with PR's fire rating, I felt the dorms were better at IWU - better repair, newer; they actually had fireplaces in the commone areas; common areas of the dorms that I saw were one per floor, making for a better shared experience; but I need to follow up with someone to see if they are working with real flames. A student there said they were fake - just electric. I am talking of the frosh dorms. both have good hi class upper classmen dorms with LU having a real nice new one overlooking the river (hiett I believe).</p>

<p>mottos
LU - light more light (my favorite of all schools)
IWU - knowledge and wisdom</p>

<p>LU is a coll that change lives by pope
IWU is number 10 in the nation in best (overlooked) colleges by jay matthews of the wash post , a similar ranking as CTCL.</p>

<p>both have ruggs' distinction in English depts.</p>

<p>IWU pop is 2150 vs LU 1450, about 300-350 of which are music connies.</p>

<p>both have a busy street bisecting the campus. LU is more of a get your arms around charming place with the admin office being a pretty hardwood floor/fp victorian house. IWU looks bigger with taller looking buildings. admin office in a standard office building.</p>

<p>more admin impressions: LU has plato's republic in the admissions office; lu has the standard college mags and brochures. LU pioneered the freshman gateway program - per pope. IWU has one too.</p>

<p>note the 76 pct 4 yr grad rate at iwu vs 62 pct at lu. cd be the 5 yr dbl degree pgm at lu, but I believe it is 75 pct at 5 yrs.</p>

<p>PR acad rating
LU=92
IWU=87</p>

<p>both are 20 something pct in study abroad (from the websites and brochures, you'd think they'd be higher).</p>

<p>both are Kiplinger best values top 50 schools (IWU rank=37, LU rank=50)</p>

<p>rank in source of PHds for all 4 yr LACs (1000 of them): IWU, 130th, LU 27th (recall plato's republic)</p>

<p>IWU has close train and bus access to get home ( for us, chicago, but presumably to other places). LU only has close bus access, but the bus seems to be not exactly running like butter (takes 5 and half hrs to do a 3 hr car ride to chicago, for example).</p>

<p>IWU much more state-only school with something like 88 pct from ILL. LU has a higher int'l as well as national profile. Accordingly, in our informal local surveys, most greater chicagoans 'heard of' IWU and say 'that's a good school' than LU.</p>

<p>pct in top 10 pct/25 pct hs class
LU 34/66
IWU 46/82</p>

<p>Look at the phd rank and this last stat: one reason it is a Ctcl. LU does well with.. not less, but with kids with their minds and spirits in the right place. not every top 10/25 pct er is a partier. my d is a 26 pcter and likes academics vs parties.</p>

<p>standardized tests - a wash at 26-30</p>

<p>student fac ratio: 9:1 LU , IWU: 12:1</p>

<p>the antidote to the feng shui: LU has an active paper factory right across the river that does not look very pretty. I did not see such factories near IWU.</p>

<p>IWU has close access to a 24 mile constitution bike trail.
Pantagraph.com</a> | Constitution Trail</p>

<p>LU I think has a 9 mile bike trail near it called the newberry trail.</p>

<p>usnr rank: LU 56, IWU 61</p>

<p>PR qual of life rating: LU, 88; IWU, 82</p>

<p>the co-college critierion: IWU sits next to a big state uni, ISU, and is about an hour to UIUC; LU is maybe a half hour to st norbert, and maybe 45 mins to ripon. more by itself, I think. yes, isu has bars and energy, but its does have speakers, too.</p>

<p>PR profs ratings (interesting / accessible): LU, 91 / 94; IWU, 79 / 84</p>

<p>perceived political leanings: IWU more middle of the road (PR says is ranks in election, what election); LU more left of center</p>

<p>there is a film studies minor at LU, but not at IWU. I asked an admissions person at iwu, 'are there film studies courses?', and she said, no, but there is a 9x9, or some such named extra curricular film club.</p>

<p>a note: I like film studies, but I think if one is thinking of creating content at the source, the best way is to be well rounded and educated about lots of stuff. the student film geek people will probably be able to teach one about the nuts and bolts of film, I bet.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>To add some detail to the initial entry of the above post about getting around: pct of students with cars: LU, 35; IWU,70</p>

<p>IWU has a great performing arts scene on campus; LU has a good one, too. But one will be able to see and participate in the creation of more performing arts, specifically music theatre, at IWU than at LU. IWU has a one story tall head of hamlet sitting outside of the theatre.</p>

<p>I believe I heard on the tour that IWU puts musical-s (!) on each yr. Not sure about LU.</p>

<p>greek pct, f,s: LU, 21,9; IWU, 33,26</p>

<p>my impressions of the students: both real friendly and down to earh. I was wondering if the girls at least care more about how 'put together' they are at IWU than at LU. this is not as a solid of a piece of data as 'pct with cars'. just a quick impression.</p>

<p>this is just some of the stuff that I know about the two schools. pls anyone else chime in.</p>

<p>for example, the last bit about how much the students feel they need to put on make up wd be profitable for a contribution by real iwu and lu students.</p>

<p>I may have missed it in all the stats posted above - but how dominant is the Greek scene at the two colleges? My impression (not based on data) is the IWU is more Greek-friendly.</p>

<p>yes, that is my impression, also. And confirmed my our IWU tour guide recently - she said that the greek scene 'is on the rise'.</p>

<p>greek pct, f,s: LU, 21,9; IWU, 33,26</p>

<p>sorry about the disorganized data above - thus the request for some [more] information (!)</p>

<p>Wow! You are really doing your homework which of course for a huge decision like this is essential.</p>

<p>My S attends IWU and is a music theatre student with a lot of other interests. He absolutely loves IWU. There are a lot of intangibles at the school. The campus is beautiful, especially in the spring and fall. My D, who was an English/Philosophy major (not at IWU) remarked on a recent visit that she wished she had known about the school when she was looking. She especially liked the library. Plus she had been a singer in high school and would have loved to been able to continue for fun in college (not possible at her university).</p>

<p>I think there are lots of opportunities for non-majors. The number of musicals put on are incredible because in addition to the two in the regular theatre season, there are also scores of student directed musicals and musical revues that are put on in Hansen and the Phoenix. All of the ones I have seen have pit bands or even a full orchestra as in the case of a concert version of Do Re Mi I saw there this year. Those opportunities are all open to non-majors. </p>

<p>There is also a spontaneity at the school, a "Let's put on a show" mentality that is encouraged. The number of improv and comedy shows is also amazing. </p>

<p>S has met students from all over - we are from Wisconsin, his close friends are from Michigan, California, and New York as well as Illinois. There are many international students as well. </p>

<p>S lives in a "small hall" for those interested in the arts, Blackstock Hall. It is an old mansion that was converted into a residence hall and is wonderfully creative community. He rooms with a Theatre BA and a cello major who is studying at Oxford this semester on the exchange program. I'm surprised at the study abroad stat as well. It seems like the majority of kids have an overseas experience, especially if you count May term. S is leaving for Japan soon and can't wait.</p>

<p>I really can't comment much on Lawrence. It has a good reputation here in Wisconsin. D looked at it and got a nice scholarship but decided it was too small and a little too geeky. </p>

<p>Anything else I can answer about IWU from a parent's viewpoint let me know. (or I can corral S for questions too).</p>

<p>As far as the girls, my impression has been that most girls pay a bit more attention to appearance (not as much of that just rolled out of bed look as at some campuses) but also not slaves to appearance.</p>

<p>baymom, thanks for the contribution. I like what you said about the feeling for the spontaneous and a feeling to create a show at IWU. Do you know if there are drum circles at IWU, or could they be done, or would the admin allow it on the nice lawn in the inner quad?</p>

<p>could a bunch of people re-create the last scene of *The Planet of the Apes<a href="you%20be%20dr%20zaeus,%20you%20cornellius,%20you%20taylor,%20for%20example">/i</a>, say, in in some open green space at IWU?</p>

<p>do you know if a klezmer band could be struck up by students at IWU? I assume there is the skill; is there the will?</p>

<p>do you think there is the right spirit and energy present, as well as an admin allowing it, at IWU for this kind of stuff to occur? Would IWU onlookers stare at the oddness of this, or clap and join in and bring a drum and maybe enthusiastically say, 'I'll be dr zira'?</p>

<p>I guess I am also trying to find out is the creative bunch at the mansion a silo, or exception, of creativity? to what extent is that vibe shared across the campus and across other dorms, do you reckon?</p>

<p>also,
how strong is the jewish life at IWU</p>

<p>here is a link to the phoenix theatre that baymom mentioned. looks exciting.</p>

<p>Illinois</a> Wesleyan: News</p>

<p>I got the study abroad pcts from usnr big book 2008.</p>

<p>btw, what is the coffee shop in the memorial center in the quote in the above phoenix link 'Located in the “Underground” next to the coffee shop in the Memorial Center' ?</p>

<p>baymom, I'm also thankful for your comments. My d is very enthusiastic about applying to IWU; she visited the campus this year with my H and just loved it. I haven't figured out quite why; I thought the flat landscape of central Illinois and lack, in Bloomington, of either big city appeal or quaint charm would turn her off. But she loved it!</p>

<p>One thing that worried me is that nearly every review I read of IWU contains the statement "but mostly in-state students". So it's nice to hear that your D does not feel like the only OOS student there.</p>

<p>I found another link to the phoenix coincidentally written a few days before our discussion now. It seems like the spirit of creative inventiveness that I was trying to describe moves in the Phoenix. So can I assume that the Phoenix has a lot of interest and participation, either literally in the form of content creation or just by the people who come and clap and are interested in this manner?</p>

<p>Illinois</a> Wesleyan: News</p>

<p>Hey idic5, I think we PMed at some point much earlier in your search. Your posts above are showing quite a lot of research on your part! Is the "gut feeling" just not kicking in for D? I too try to research my way into any and all decisions -- sometimes you're still left with a toss-up.
My younger D is starting to kick around colleges and IWU is on her list. I know some students there, but they are not in the arts. So my impression of the student body is more of an athletic, "preppy" (I really hate that word, but use it for lack of a better one -- clean-cut? dressed-up?) set of kids. I would never claim to have the whole picture of the place, though.
Reading the tenor of your questions, I would hazard a very PERSONAL, not particularly objective-based-in-all-kinds-of-data, guess that your D would prefer Lawrence. Both are amazingly nice schools. Good luck.</p>

<p>a couple of points: on the decision, d was talking about putting pieces of paper in a hat today. :) I guess there are a lot of factors that can encroach into that gut feeling. </p>

<p>On those questions I asked: I sheepishly might suggest that those questions, or at least some of those questions, come more from me vs me as her advocate (!). In other words, they MIGHT represent MY values more than hers. I dunno. She has said to me, for example, that she is not THAT interested in a drum circle.</p>

<p>I was a philosophy major and so have a special place in my heart for Plato - thus this caught my eye in my observations. There is Heisenberg uncertainty principle, or some derivative of it, working here, where the observer (me) adds info and excludes info to the phenomena as a function of the observer's biases.</p>

<p>This is one reason I was asking for more info, I mean gut feelings, from others.</p>

<p>Sorry for not responding to the additional questions promptly - I was in Texas for my nephew's wedding. </p>

<p>Idic5 - I posed your question about spontaneous breakouts in the quad to my S. He said not only would anyone look askance at such an outburst of random creativity but you would soon have an encouraging crowd surrounding the performers cheering them on and probably throwing out suggestions for character improv. His take on things is that the majority of students are very open to creativity in many forms, not just performance. His dorm freshman year was full of singing pre-med students and cello playing academics. He said that nearly every show at every venue being standing room only or a sell out was proof of the student body's support. PS - The coffee shop next to the Underground is the Dugout. S was just in a performance there of "Quickies" - 50 30-minute comedy sketches. (Lots of fun with packed crowds). </p>

<p>ChiSq - Reassure your D - it really seems as if there are more OOS students than stats suggest. As I mentioned, S has never felt out of place - he knows so many students from so many places. And my S felt the same way about IWU when he visited the campus - fell in love with the school immediately. Who knew??</p>

<p>sounds like the QQ+ is alive at IWU !</p>

<p>baymom, or anyone, do you know if there are any drum circles at IWU? People just drumming, together, informally, usually with hand, vs stick, percussion. Venice beach in south california does it, for example*.</p>

<p>The following is a quick hint at why I ask about drum circles. D might not 'get it' - just yet....</p>

<p>Drum circles affect the air, the atmosphere of its surroundings, in a way that gives all who hear it, feel it actually, a sense of the underlying musicality of the universe, a connection to that 'music of the spheres' as John Milton put it. So the little green quad at IWU, and the drum participants, which include the drummers and all who feel this rhythm at IWU, are then connected in a way to alpha centauri++, reaching an almost trance-like state going beyond the little green quad and finding that 'eternity in an hour and infinity in a blade of grass'.+++</p>

<p>It is the beat of the mother's heart that we all come from and all return to.</p>

<ul>
<li>quirk quotient</li>
</ul>

<p>++
Alpha</a> Centauri</p>

<p>+++
William</a> Blake Auguries</p>

<p>*
YouTube</a> - Venice Beach Drum Circle 7/16/2006</p>

<p>I found this, too
USA</a> Drum Circle Finder by Drumcircles.net</p>

<p>'poor college students'
YouTube</a> - Drum circle</p>

<p>grassroots
YouTube</a> - {Grassroots} : Drum Circle</p>

<p>or quieter, at erudite amherst
YouTube</a> - Amherst College Drum Circle</p>

<p>byod, or, ask the student council for an allocation of activity fee for a drum.</p>

<p>'my dinner with idic5' I recalled a reference to drumming in the polish forests in this movie I last saw about 29 years ago...youtube is cool (brought to us by college guys)
YouTube</a> - Andre</p>