I'm challenging my placement test score - Which essay of mine should I submit?

Student Lounge College Life
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<p>I hope this is the correct forum to be posting this in. I visited my community college counselor today about my placement test results. I do not believe the test accurately displays my English writing ability. The counselor told me I can challenge the test with a, most befitting title, challenge form. She told me to choose one of my essays I have written to submit with my form. I don't know what essay of mine would be a proper one to submit. I have 3 of them:</p>

<p>As I Lay Dying Argument Essay by Dale Wallace</p>

<p>Typically, when a husband acts out his wife’s last dying wish, it is perceived to be an act of love. In the tragic novel titled As I Lay Dying, written by the exceptional literary artist, William Faulkner, this is not the case. Instead it is a selfish act motivated by self-indulging greed.</p>

<p>The novel is about a rural family named the Bundrens who are motivated by their father to fulfill the mother’s last dying wish of being buried in her hometown of Jefferson, Mississippi. The father, Anse, spent the entire time trying to rush the family to Jefferson to fulfill his wife’s wish because he loved her, or so it seems as though he is doing it for this reason. Anse refused to spend any money. He had an ulterior motive behind not spending any money and going down to Jefferson. Anse - “We forgot our spade, too.” “Yes,” Darl said. “I’ll go to the hardware store. We’ll have to buy one.” “It’ll cost money,” pa says “Do you begrudge her it?” (page 235) He didn’t want to spend money on his deceased wife. For someone who persists on fulfilling his wife’s wish, he sure doesn’t seem willing to give up money. With the money he basically stole from his kids he got new dentures. Anse took money from his kids and used it to benefit himself. He wanted dentures to get a new wife in Jefferson. At the end of the novel, right next to his wife’s grave: “It’s Cash and Jewel and Vardaman and Dewey Dell,” pa says, kind of hangdog and proud too, with his teeth and all, even if he wouldn’t look at us. “Meet Mrs Bundren,” he says.</p>

<p>There father of the family acts like anything but a father. His actions seem to be guided by immaturity which is so evident throughout the novel. If something inconvenienced Anse, he wouldn’t do it. The physician, Peabody, even commented on the fact that Anse made his son, Cash, ride in a wagon with a broken leg and didn’t take him to a hospital: Peabody - “You mean, it never bothered Anse much,” I said. No more than it bothered him to throw that poor devil down in the public street and handcuff him like a damn murderer… why didn’t Anse carry you to the nearest sawmill and stick your leg in the saw? That would have cured it. Then you all could have stuck his head into the saw and cured a whole family.” Peabody knew that Anse wouldn’t do anything that would inconvenience him such as taking Cash to the doctors. Instead, Anse bought cement, which is way cheaper than going to the doctor, and used it to try and “help” Cashes broken leg.</p>

<p>Anse cared so little about Addie being buried and anyone else in the family. Anse sold the only thing that his son, Jewel, cared for the most besides his mother, his horse. He sold his other son’s, Cash, tool box, which was the family’s only form of repair tools and Cash’s life. Anse also took the money his daughter, Dewey Dell, had: Anse - “It’s just a loan. God knows, I hate for my blooden children to reproach me. But I give them what was mine without stint. Cheerful I give them, without stint. And now they deny me. Addie. It was lucky for you you died Addie. ‘Pa. Pa’ God knows it is. He took the money and went out.” In this confrontation with Dewey Dell, Anse doesn’t even think about what she has and needs it for. He wants the money for his own gratifications and doesn’t even take into consideration that it was lent to her for another serious need. He also completely ignores her by talking over her. This shows that Anse is more concerned about himself more than he is about his children.</p>

<p>As shown, actions which seem as though they are done for love are sometimes done only for self-gratifying reasons. Actions which are done at even the expense and livelihood of someone’s own flesh and blood. There are deceivers out there who only do things to benefit themselves. Those types of people are able to twist event in their favor and make themselves look good and they heap the rewards as well. This all clearly displayed by the character Anse. A man whose agenda was not done in favor of his wife or child children, but himself.</p>

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<p>Siddhartha Argument Essay by Dale Wallace</p>

<p>It is commonly believed that events and experiences can be fully understood and perceived accurately from another person’s point of view rather than someone’s own self. Most would concur that reading an article on how the living situation is in any third world country is an acceptable way to perceive an event accurately. This common way of presumption is completely unbefitting and not acceptable. There are several aspects on coming to an adequate conclusion about a subject matter that are only acceptable. These ideals are exhibited in a novel written by Hermann Hesse called Siddhartha.</p>

<p>Siddhartha is about a boy named Siddhartha Gotama who grew up in his younger years as a Brahman. Siddhartha has already known what the eldest and most wise of the Brahman’s knew as an adolescent. He believed that living everyday with rituals and traditions, to reach bodha (awakened) when no one else has ever done so that way, was a waste of time. Siddhartha believed that there must be another path to achieve awakenedness. Finally, Siddhartha and his friend named Govinda left on a search of enlightenment. Throughout the rest of the novel Siddhartha learned things he never knew before and experienced things in person, in search of a way to achieve enlightenment, rather than perceiving how things are by yourself.</p>

<p>The Buddha expressed in the Sutra of The Four Noble Truths that enlightenment can be achieved when one possesses “the four noble truths”. These four noble truths are, know suffering, abandon origins which are a cause for suffering, attain cessations, know there is an end to suffering, and practice the eightfold path that leads out of suffering. The aesthetics attempt to achieve enlightenment by fasting, meditating, abandoning ones self. It seems logical that these methods would satisfy The Four Noble Truths. Siddharta believes these conventional methods will not help one attain enlightenment as expressed by Siddhartha “There is one thing that this clear, worthy instruction does not contain; it does not contain the secret of what the Illustrious One himself experienced—he alone among hundreds of thousands. That is what I thought and realized when I heard your teachings. That is why I am going on my way—not to seek another doctrine, for I know there is none, but to leave all doctrines and all teachers and to reach my goal alone—or die.” Siddhartha understood that enlightenment can not be taught but that it has to brought on by ones own will.</p>

<p>Inadvertently, Siddhartha subsequently possessed The Four Noble Truths at the time of his enlightenment. The first noble truth is “know suffering”. His life with the aesthetics involved losing his desire for property, clothing, sexuality, and all sustenance except that required to live. One would learn to fast, to endure terrible weather conditions, such as the extreme cold, the extreme heat, etc. This is inadvertently how Siddhartha possesses Dukkha, The first Noble Truth. Siddhartha expresses this - “Siddhartha learned a great deal from the Samanas; he learned many ways of losing the Self. He traveled along the path of self-denial through pain, through voluntary suffering and conquering of pain, through hunger, thirst and fatigue. He traveled the way of self-denial through meditation, through the emptying of the mind through all images. Along these and other paths did he learn to travel. He lost his Self a thousand times and for days on end he dwelt in non-being. But although the paths took him away from self, in the end they always led back to it.” Siddhartha even understands but doesn’t connect the fact that he is actually gradually attaining enlightenment by experiencing each of what he is learning and that what he learned while with the Samana’s was several of The Noble Truths. The second Noble Truth is to abandon origins which are a cause for suffering. When Siddhartha left his father and his whole childhood behind to become a Samana, he, again inadvertently attained Samudaya by abandoning his origins. The third Noble Truth is Nirodha, which is knowing there is an end to suffering. “And Siddhartha's soul returned, had died, had decayed, was scattered as dust, had tasted the gloomy intoxication of the cycle, awaited in new thirst like a hunter in the gap, where he could escape from the cycle, where the end of the causes, where an eternity without suffering began.” Moreover, Siddhartha learned about the end of his own suffering when he was with the Ferryman and he learned to speak to the river. The forth Noble Truth is knowing The Eightfold Path. This is the part of The Noble Truths that Siddhartha wholly learned from his traveling.</p>

<p>Siddhartha knew subconsciously that enlightenment is best not to be perceived at a distance. The Brahmans, Samanas, and the Buddha’s teachings, none of them actually evolved putting themselves in the whole cycle and making perceptions then. They actually involve perceiving how things are from a distance and believing this is adequate. This is what helped Siddhartha to become enlightened. Siddhartha actually put himself in the world. When someone reads the news, they act like it is acceptable for them to make whole hearted conclusions. One can try, but not wholly and accurately, to learn of events by themselves and not actually perceive the event in person and have the emotions acquainted with being present. This ideal makes Siddhartha actually selfless by wanting to find out the world for himself and actually evolve himself in such events.</p>

<p>Jealousy by Dale Wallace</p>

<p>In our present society we have a preconceived notion about jealously and it’s attributing emotions and circumstantial reactions to such emotions. These prejudgments are not only erroneous but simply not even relative by canon and evidence in Shakespeare’s work of literature titled Othello. What becomes a problem is what is the actual foundation for jealousy and how is it exhibited in Othello.</p>

<p>Throughout Othello it is apparent that jealousy is the predominant theme. Understanding how jealousy attributes to the majority of the tragedy involves explanation of the fundamental groundwork. Jealousy is spawned with the antagonist character named Iago and the protagonist named Othello. Othello, who is a General, appointed Cassio to be Lieutenant, which Iago believed the position to be most adequate for him per of his background in warfare. In order for Iago to beget what is rightfully his, he manufactures fallacious rumor about Cassio sleeping with Othello’s wife, Desdemona. By doing so, Othello will demote or have Cassio executed. In order to make Iago not appear related to these affairs, he uses Othello’s insecurities about his relationship with his wife to get the best of him.</p>

<p>What becomes of Othello is the fact that he believes he is obligated to be jealous. Jealousy reflects a persons view of himself and how confident they are about who they are. Even though Othello still is sexually active with Desdemona, he feels as if he is emasculated. His feelings are attributed to him feeling as if he can’t fulfill Desdemona adequately. This inadequateness is the downfall of love dote for Desdemona. Othello begins to question and examine his masculinity because of this jealousy. As Desdemona said “But jealous souls will not be answered so; They are not ever jealous for the cause,
But jealous for they’re jealous. It is a monster, Begot upon itself, born on itself.” (page 80) This statement is indubitable.</p>

<p>Which essay seems to display my english ability to the fullest? The counselor told me to use a good 3 page, double spaced essay. Thank you for your time.</p>

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<p>Sorry, I'm too tired to read through all of them, but do not use the second one as it's not really an essay, it's more like book report. Actually, they all sound like book reports. The basics of an essay are some sort of thesis (something you are trying to establish, prove, w/e) statement, and evidence to back it up. This is not meant in a mean way, but in all honesty I don't see either of these things in any of these papers. </p>

<p>What are you challenging about the placement?</p>

<p>Edit: I would also reccomend that you simplify your language. Stating something clearly and concisley is much better than using big words in a complicated fashion. Some of your sentences take re-reading a few times for them to make sense. Again, not trying to be mean, this is just constructive criticism.</p>

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<p>Hi Dale,</p>

<p>I agree with the points raised by equine99 in the critique of your essays. </p>

<p>If you were to use what you have written critical analysis on any of these books, your english professor would eat you for lunch. Writing is a life long skill and the writing that you will be doing in college across the cirriculm is going to be vastly different from what you presented . When you get into some of your classes, you are going to be evaluated on not only what you write but how you write it.</p>

<p>If you are upset because you think that you have been placed in a class lower than you expected, don't let it bother you. Swallow your pride and take the class as it will give you a stronger foundation for college writing. You will be able to see the mistakes that you are making, learn how to correct them and walk away with a valuable life long skill.</p>

<p>good luck</p>

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<p>My college didn't have an english placement exam(I don't think) but I was kind of annoyed that I'd have to take freshman honors english after receiving credit for my APs. Let me be the first to tell you that it was the greatest class. During the same semester I took a upper division humanities course that was extremely writing intensive... the first few assignments I was really overwhelmed in both of the classes. I was going to the professors for help because I was getting B's and C's on my papers but then by midterm time I was churning out one 10 page paper a week and I was getting A's on them. I ended up get A's in both those classes and felt like it was a great experience. This past semester I took a grad level history course and on the first paper the professor told me after class that my essay was great and I should consider submitting it as a writing sample for something I was doing. I went from being a pretty bad essay writer to a decent one. </p>

<p>... just take the class and LEARN! Being about to write well will benefit you in any field.</p>

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<p>My highschool english teacher used to tell us to use a "so what" test. The most important part of writing an essay is having a SOLID arguement, then backing it up with SOLID evidence. If you can look at your arguement and say "so what", then it's not good enough. I'm reading your essays and I'm thinking to myself, so what, why would I care about all the generalities of the book if I've already read the book. I want to know the deeper interpretation of the book, not just the details. I don't want to sound mean, but all these essays tell me is that you've read these books, not much else. I would suggest you just take the class you were placed into, even if it seems like you should be in a higher class, the lower classes will build a solid foundation so you can become an excellent writer in time. Good luck in college, and trust me the lower class will be worth taking in the long run.</p>

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<p>I'm sorry I didn't explain myself better at first. First of all, none of you guys have heard of a scholarly argumentative essay? You state the general conception by society and you refute it with evidence from a work of literature. I learned all this in an Advance Placement English Literature class my senior year of high school. This class is where all the top 5% of the student body were. This is a English grad student type paper. This is the type of paper that a scholar would write; according to my professor and countless scholarly essays I have read. The placement test the college is based off of 120 points.
English 63 (Reading Fundamentals): Score 1-44
English 64 (Intermediate Reading): Score 45-82
English 98 (English Fundamentals): Score 83-99
English 101 (Freshmen Composition): Score 100-120</p>

<p>My score was a 98 (from what I recall. I was between 97-100 or higher). I was 2 points from being in Freshmen Composition. Also, the placement test has some family life questions since the school was sued 10 years back. They were sued because someone didn't like the fact that they were placed into classes only because of what they know. Someone else could have answered the same questions I did, but if they answered the family life questions differently they could have been rounded up into English 101. This is the main reason why they have the challenge form. The fact that I was in AP English Literature (The highest level of English available also plays a part in my challenge form.) and passed it with a C+ even though my father passed away in the same year. I don't know why you guys haven't seen these grad student type papers before. My teacher told me my verbiage is outstanding. I've “dumbed” it down in those essays since he told me it makes it easier for those who are not as proficient in English and would wish to read it. I can easily write a nonsensical typical argument paper that you see in under graduate work or I can write the real argument essay; such as this. I refuse to belittle myself to nonsensical work when my proficiency level can handle much more challenging work.
My steady argument:
-I've been in the highest level English available at my high school and passed it with a C+ (during the time my father passed away).
-I was 2 points away from being in the "normal" English class.
-I know how to write scholarly type essays.
-I learned structural linguistics (An upper level college course).
-I learned about countless English philosophers.
-I learned about how to write a literary critique paper.
-I learned about how to write grad student type papers with great proficiency.
(My teacher told us he was basically teaching us all the stuff he did during his graduate level of college. We were reading the same works of literature, the same essays, learning the same stuff. We are seniors in high school learning about stuff most english major learn 5-7 years later.)
-and much more.</p>

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<p>Dear Dale, you posted your essays and asked for feedback; please assume that those who responded know whereof they speak. Your essays are not well written. They do not provide insight into the literature. The language is awkward and wordy. This is the level of essay writing I've typically seen in community college freshman English classes. There is hope for you. Read! Go to your library, get a reading list, expose yourself to the work of great writers. Think. Then write.</p>

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<p>The fact that you were in AP english at your highshool tells us nothing, it means nothing. Every teacher grades differently, who knows how your teacher graded compared to other AP english teachers, this is why they have the AP exam which you don't even mention. All I know is that if one of those essays had been submitted to an honors level teacher, let alone an AP english teacher at my old high school they would have chewed you up and spit you out. I can't say that I know what you're talking about when you mentioned scholarly arguementative essays, but I do know what arguementative means, and these essays argue nothing. The placement exams are there for a reason, fine submit your challenge form, but my recommendation still stands, take the class you were placed into because it will help you more in the long run, don't let your ego hurt your college GPA.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
This is the type of paper that a scholar would write; according to my professor and countless scholarly essays I have read.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't know where your professor went to school or where he teaches, but I agree with aph2010 as my D's high school AP english teacher would have killed your paper. I have read and written my share of scholarly papers (having completed 2-masters and currently a PhD candidate) and I can tell you first hand what you have written is not even remotely writing at the graduate level .</p>

<p>The net-net is this, you asked for an opinion and feedback. You got an opinion and feedback. Maybe it is not what you wanted to hear, but riddle me this; how can a bunch of strangers from different academic backgrounds all come to the same conclusion? After all has been said and done, you are going to do what ever you want to do. You have been given IMHO, some pretty good advice. It is your choice as to whether or not you take it. You will be doing a lot of writing through out your college career and You will come across some professors who are going to be brutal when it comes to grading your papers. It really would help you over the long haul to really build up your writing skills while you have the opportunity to do so.</p>

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<p>Dale:</p>

<p>I agree with sybbie. You asked for advice and you got it. Instead of assimilating these comments you respond with conceit and condescension.</p>

<p>I haven't read the entirety of your posts but it seems to me that some of your sentences are awkwardly verbose. Certain words just stick out as being out of place. There are also several grammatical errors.</p>

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<p>Your diction is also off for a scholarly essay. </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
he sure doesn’t seem willing to give up money. With the money he basically stole

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Here's just one place where it stood out to me.</p>

<p>If you want us to pull it apart line by line and show you your weaknesses, I'm sure someone here will/can. I am at work, so I can't right now.</p>

<p>You posted here asking for advice, and you have the choice to take it or not. No one here posted to do anything other than help you.</p>

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<p>Dale,</p>

<p>I agree with the other posters. It appears that the placement test has identified weaknesses that you need to correct.</p>

<p>I think you need to find your own "voice". The writing style here is stilted and unnecessarily verbose. This may have fit your AP teacher's style - but will not be helpful to you in your future writing.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I don't know where your professor went to school or where he teaches, but I agree with aph2010, my D's high school english teacher would have killed your paper. I have read and written my share of scholarly papers (2-masters and a PhD candidate) and I can tell you what you have written is not even remotely graduate level work.

[/quote]

I'm not saying I am a professonial scholar writer by any means. I am saying that my model is literary argumentative essay model that english scholars use.</p>

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<p>NotReady4Purple,</p>

<p>My teacher told us that this is the only essay you will ever need in college. A couple his past students visited us every once and a while in his class and told us that this essay model is the only one you will ever need as well.</p>

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<p>equine99,</p>

<p>I am not saying I am perfect T_T These 3 essays are actually just very rough draft essays. My teacher wanted us to practice the writing model rather than polishing the essays.</p>

<p>I absolutely want everyones opinion. I'm just perplexed as to why some people don't understand this writing model.</p>

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<p>eh, very much not true. This is coming from other people in college. At any decent school this kind of paper will get you a D/C. Which schools did they go to?</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
equine99,</p>

<p>I am not saying I am perfect T_T These 3 essays are actually just very rough draft essays. My teacher wanted us to practice the writing model rather than polishing the essays.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>If your trying to challenge a placement then why on earth would you submit a rough, unpolished, draft essay?? Even as a draft, it doesn't have any of the bones of an essay.</p>

<p>I really feel for you, that you got stuck with a teacher who basically lied to you, and didn't give you the necessary skills. Take the class you were placed into, and you can build the right skills.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
If your trying to challenge a placement then why on earth would you submit a rough, unpolished, draft essay?? Even as a draft, it doesn't have any of the bones of an essay.

[/quote]

Again, I should clarify. I polished my essays up anyway to the best of my ability and time frame before I submitted them to my teacher. I am a perfectionist.</p>

<p>Out of 120 possible points, I recieved a 98. That is 2 points away from being in English 101. Also, the test is biased with the family and personal life questions. The school was sued 10 years back. They were forced to implement family and personal life questions which affect your placement. Someone else could take this test, get the same score as me, and get into English 101 because they answered the personal life questions differently. Fair? - No.</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
Again, I should clarify. I polished my essays up anyway to the best of my ability and time frame before I submitted them to my teacher. I am a perfectionist.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>So what are we looking at here?? Is this the rough draft, or your best polished perfectionistic version?</p>

<p>Also, why wouldn't you use your polished & perfect essays as the ones you wanted to submit for re-placement? Why would you use the ones that were only meant to teach you structure (if you can call it that)?</p>

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<p>It is a semi-polished version. I did that with all my essays in the allotted time period.</p>