<p>i feel itchy</p>
<p>Did someone call?</p>
<p>I thought I made amends to the denizens of this board.</p>
<p>I'm just going to state my boilerplate view of Cornell:
1)Absolutely top-notch departments in almost every field. Just look at NRC rankings.
2) SOME kids are verrrry smart. These are almost uniformly engineers and most Arts & Sciences kids.
3) A lot of other people are earth-shatteringly dull or outright stupid. This can be upsetting and alarming during your first semester. Examples range from watching students pronounce Shakespeare's "yea" as "yeah," seeing them say that Brazilians speak Spanish, or studying with a girl who's getting a C in intro to sociology.</p>
<p>So, why was I paying 45k a year to share my future reputation with the idiots who would be manning the counter at McDonald's in 4 years?</p>
<p>I couldn't answer that, so I transferred to Penn. I will say this: Penn and Cornell share a similar UPPER limit of intelligence - but the lower level at Cornell is MUCH lower. And you have to admit, Penn is definitely more sought after among HS seniors than Cornell is, although this is admittedly meaningless. Not to me, though.</p>
<p>Still sounds funny to me.. Penn. ha.</p>
<p>Times do change, but don't expect everyone my age to be as impressed as you are with it. If I didn't have kids applying to colleges I wouldn't have been looking at all this stuff again.</p>
<p>There is, without question, a diversity in aims, capabilities and interests at Cornell. "I will found an institution where [people can study anything].." has some consequences. Perhaps social, even moreso than academic. After freshman year the classroom experience became much more homogeneous.</p>
<p>I myself studied in Arts & Engineering; where we differ is: I felt that my "future reputation" effect was connected to my colleges, not the other colleges I didn't attend. It never even entered my mind that my application for a job with my science degrees would be impacted in any way by the fact that there is also a College of Industrial and Labor Relations, etc. which I did not study at, also located at Cornell. I still believe that was correct.</p>
<p>What I later realized is that the inverse was true. Ag, Hotel, Architecture are all prominent internationally and actually enhance Cornell's reputation. </p>
<p>And what I learned after that, is that college reputation means squat once you're out there for a while. The reputation that counts is the one of you, that you make. </p>
<p>I received opportunities via my Cornell degree that probably would not have been available to non-Ivies. It is good enough to get you in, if you are good enough. Which is really all you can ask. But after you are in, it's all up to you.</p>
<p>So in other words, after a point, it just doesn't matter.</p>
<p>What's most important, IMO, is what environment is most conducive towards you having a successful and enjoyable four years. If Penn is better for you from that perspective, by all means go to Penn. But that's a personal decision about which reasonable people may differ.</p>
<p>The other thing I would observe is that there are outstanding people in many of the colleges, not just arts & engineering. Some of the smartest guys I knew were getting a cheap bio major via the ag school; I know a couple of them who are now professors at major universities. The single most successful person I knew from college was a Hotelie. And I know several ILR grads who today are partners at major NYC law firms. I underestimated some of these people when I was an undergrad. I suspect you did too.</p>
<p>But it is a big diverse school and there are definitely some bozos. You felt that this somehow would impact, or reflect on, you. I never thought that, and still don't to this day.</p>
<p>Mostly over the years, when I've told people I went to Cornell they've been impressed. Can't ask for more than that. Or even that.</p>
<p>True enough, Monydad. Your response is quite credited, and clearly you were among the first group of students that I mentioned.</p>
<p>I still quote your finding on Brown University's rise through the rankings on the Brown board when I'm looking for trouble. Penn, I think, just did precisely the same thing, which explains your first sentence.</p>
<p>The "bozos" that you mentioned were my raison d'etre for leaving Cornell. Their presence infuriated me, and frankly made me feel insecure about myself.</p>
<p>@moneydad and muerteapablo</p>
<p>Hey guys, I really do appreciate your opinions on Cornell's environment. Not only did I see both views on the spectrum, but I also gained more information. This just goes to show that you can "constructively" criticize an aspect of a school while still giving out great information. For that, I thank you guys for pointing out the differences in academic level. It actually made me more committed in going lol. I love diversity, even academically.</p>
<p>@Everyone else(especially you forum trolls >.<)
I don't mind people disliking Cornell. Just state why constructively and don't just slander it like some did...</p>
<p>While your point is well-intentioned and very true, I don't really like the fact that you take it upon yourself to morally judge other posters and act as a sort of quasi-moderator-vigilante.
Just tone down the self-righteousness a little (this was from one of your previous posts somewhere else) and you'll be golden :)
This was not intended to be a mean or condescending post, I just want to share with you my opinion that trying to be a vigilante, however well-intentioned, should be discouraged and leaving that job to moderators should be encouraged.</p>
<p>Wow, I sound like Umbridge. "pruning practices that need to be pruned"</p>
<p>Muerte -- </p>
<p>I think your problem was that you were insecure about Cornell before you even stepped foot in Ithaca.</p>
<p>And I wouldn't hold the inability to correctly pronounce 'yea' against somebody, especially when it is so often spelled 'yay' these days. Intelligence comes in many forms, and some students may have come from a high school that didn't provide them with the type of opportunities that you had. Or maybe they had a speech impediment, as I had growing up. I myself have woefully mispronounced some archaic words on many occasion. </p>
<p>And I hear you, monydad -- back when I was applying to colleges non-Wharton Penn was definitely thought to be at the bottom of the totem pole.</p>
<p>And, frankly, I'm surprised you haven't encountered your share of clowns and idiots yet at Penn. Trust me. They are there. A friend of mine from high school actually roomed with the kid who stole the credit cards from the mail and run up a quarter million dollars in fraudulent charges. Now there's an idiot.</p>
<p>I have to admit, the Harvard boards are really mean. I applied there because my parents wanted me to, but I'd rather go to a non-Ivy. My impression so far of that school is that everyone really is cut-throat and prestige-driven, not what I want.</p>
<p>Back to Cornell: Everyone, even the smartest people in the world, are dumb at something. I'm sure some of the people I know don't know Brazilians speak Portuguese, but they could tell you all about hadrons and eusinophils and whatnot. I have to say I'm extremely bad when it comes to physics.</p>
<p>True, Penn used to be the worst, but now it ain't. Although I wonder if that will last? I don't really care, though, as long as it's long enough for me to get a job or go to grad school.</p>
<p>I personally think I would prefer the less intelligent people...</p>
<p>How come? Easier grading?</p>
<p>"Intelligence comes in many forms.."</p>
<p>This is another lesson I did not fully appreciate at age 18-21.</p>
<p>I remember this one guy at a prior job I had, he was an absolute airhead back in the shop, couldn't turn on his calculator. Didn't know why he even there.</p>
<p>Then, one time, he was asked to make a presentation at a department function. He was incredible. I never realized.</p>
<p>Some of these people who may not have the highest SAT scores, or grades: it may turn out they are personality stars, that's what got them in, and what may propel them farther in life than someone else's math SAT score. Or they have other skills.</p>
<p>I probably have higher test scores than the guy who runs the service station where I get my car fixed. But you know what- he is a successful small business owner, which I'm not, and he can fix cars and I can't. I could learn a lot from him.</p>
<p>Some people can design a building; paint a picture; design and make clothing. I can't do any of those things, and moreover I've no aptitude for these tasks, I'd be terrible if I tried. There are people at Cornell doing all those things, and I daresay every one of them would be better at it than I would be. Despite the fact that maybe my SAT scores were higher than some (but not all) of their's. </p>
<p>A person's sum individual worth is not adequately quantified by a group of scores. The tests don't measure every aspect of human potential that actually may be important.</p>
<p>"I personally think I would prefer the less intelligent people..."
"How come? Easier grading?"</p>
<p>Poster can speak for themself, but maybe what is meant is a preference for company of people who are not hung up on the cult of success, prestige and related trappings; and don't evaluate others largely on that one metric. This is not, actually, solely a function of their intelligence, it is a function of their personality. My kids are very bright, but were very turned off by the places that seemed to be primarily occupied by people who were greatly driven by prestige. We don't drive Mercedes in my house; even when we could afford them. Other people do. C'est la vie.</p>
<p>But Cornell is a mixed bag in this regard, there are just all sorts of people there.</p>
<p>useless conjecture: penn declines in student body quality after the cultural ramifications of the financial bailout become clear (IE, no more cushie 130k analyst job right out of UG school. Business school becomes much less attractive. The money moves from finance to other sectors). Most of penn's "prestige" comes from wharton, and now that the gravy train is over...</p>
<p>I do appreciate your humility in coming back to this board and recognizing that cornell is not filled with the swamp scum proto-people you once assumed it was too :)</p>
<p>Variations of this "useless conjecture" have been seen before. When I was an applicant for college, business schools were in very low repute. Top students did not attend business schools, basically. I'm pretty sure at that time Penn's Arts college was more selective than Wharton. NYUs undergrad business school was probably accepting over 70% of applicants.</p>
<p>Tboonepickens, that's simply incorrect. Penn now has undeniable cachet among high schoolers, and is a very popular choice among the top applicants. Definitely more so than Cornell. It's firmly ensconced within the "middle ivies": Columbia, Penn, Brown, Dartmouth. It's totally ridiculous to write off its current popularity and very high rank to Wharton, which makes up only a quarter of the school.</p>
<p>Also, the applications to Wharton did not appreciably decrease this year, despite the horrible economy. In fact, at the MBA level, they skyrocketed (obviously, due to all the lay-offs). The expected acceptance rate is expected to dip significantly. Selectivity is higher than ever.</p>
<p>I am not talking about now. The 'cultural ramifications' I was referring to will probably not set in for another 10 years or so, so you wont have to worry about it. And regardless, I think the only people who care about the difference between cornell and penn are high school seniors who are deciding between the two. </p>
<p>Your earlier statement that it is surging in popularity (in another thread) makes this even more likely. Penn ebbs and flows in "popularity" among applicants, like most schools do, and like almost EVERYTHING in general does. Soon, penn will be on the downswing instead of the upswing. Whats on top one day is on the bottom the next; its just how things happen (except HYP). </p>
<p>I am glad that you have found a school in which you fit in and enjoy.</p>
<p><a href="except%20HYP">quote</a>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There's no reason to suspect they will continue to hold the luster they currently enjoy either, or for that matter, Cornell. Exploding endowments can do that to you.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's firmly ensconced within the "middle ivies": Columbia, Penn, Brown, Dartmouth. It's totally ridiculous to write off its current popularity and very high rank to Wharton, which makes up only a quarter of the school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Any intelligence that you might have is lost on me when you make such statements such as this. Besides, we'll never be able to figure out what effect Wharton has on the school unless Penn releases its numbers by college.</p>
<p>Thanks, monydad, for post #72. That was very well said.</p>
<p>kROCK: I believe they're called eosinophils :P
Gotta love Human Physiology!</p>
<p>Anyway, the Ivies are all amazing schools. And I mean amazing. But Cornell is no less so than Penn, Brown, or even HYP for that matter.
It all comes down to fit, and each of the schools cater to someone different.
If you're insecure about Cornell, don't apply. End of story.</p>
<p>"Wow, I sound like Umbridge. 'pruning practices that need to be pruned' " Lol, Chandler you better get in. I want to talk to you in person XD</p>