Impact of lackluster principal rec.?

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
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<p>My child is currently an 8th grader at our public middle school, and has applied to several competitive private schools (some boarding, some day). The school principal was unable to upload pdf's to the GAPS app site, which we are using for only one school, so yesterday he sent the school records and his letter of recommendation to me for delivery to the school.</p>

<p>So this means I got to see his letter of rec for my kid, and I was surprised at how lack luster it is. He described her as an "above average student". The school does not rank students, but it's very clear that my child is one of the 2 or 3 top students (probably the very top) in the grade. I am sure the principal is well aware of this - we have had conversations over the years with him, and he has repeatedly told us how impressed he is with not only her intellectual ability, but also her maturity, responsibility, etc. So I expected a something more enthusiastic that "above average".</p>

<p>My kid has earned almost all A+'s ( a few A's, and not even a single A-) throughout middle school, and scored in the 90's on SSAT. Kid is also well known in the school as an outstanding artist (has impressive portfolio which we submitted to schools), but principal didn't mention this, even though I am certain he knows about kid's artistic ability. </p>

<p>Should I be worried? Will this lackluster letter destroy chances of acceptance to schools like CA, PA, MX, SMS? Or will AO's realize this might be a case of public school principal unhappy about losing a kid to private school? (Principal initially expressed disappointment over losing my child to private school) </p>

<p>As an added note, I have long been puzzled as to why most of the kids from our middle school who go for private high school, end up at one of two nearby schools which are not very selective (accept over half the applicants). Only a few kids from our school apply each year, but many of them are top students. I thought maybe that was just their choice, or maybe failure to research other schools.....but now I am wondering if it relates to our principal's style of recommending.</p>

<p>I have not had the chance to see any of the other teacher recs., so have no idea what they look like. What do you think? Do I belong on "The Worry Thread"? :o/</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, the recs can count a lot. But that the student is one of the top kids at the school is an important morsel of info. That does count heavily. The other thing that helps is that these recs are usually that way. Few public schools that I know sit and write deep informative recs for their kids. I’ve seen some as well, and they fit the mold of your principal’s and that includes for many kids applying to college. Which is a big plus in having your kid in a private school that tends to have a lot of kids going to selective schools. The teachers, counselors, administrators know how to write a great rec letter and do so. It’s part of what you get for that tuition check </p>

<p>It’s advisable, ANYTIME you ask for a recommendation, to give a cheatsheet to the recommender, so that if he is busy, gets writer’s block, doesn’t feel like exercising the brain that he can pretty much plagiarize off that sheet. I’m sure though this process is way up their in your priorities of things do do, it a pain in the neck thing for the principal that he is going to try to get done with the least amount of thought, effort and time with all the other issues he has. </p>

<p>Better a blah standard rec from these public school folks than a bad one that really hits on some points that could kill a kid’s chance. It’s a neutral.</p>

<p>But, yes, a terrific rec could make the difference. I’ve known friends whose kids were NOT one of the top kids in a private school, got middle of the road test scores on the ISEE and/or SSAT and got into top prep schools, like Choate, Andover and the like, and the references were specifically mentioned. My good friend’s daughter benefited that way. Though the school hated to lose her, they made that clear, and the glowing recs are what pushed here through the process.</p>

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<p>I wish I’d had the idea to give cheat sheets (though it seems a bit presumptuous) - I didn’t see our recs but i worry about them because, while my daughter has been a standout for most of her career at our (local, tiny, public) school, she had a rough year this year - some emotional ups and downs, homework issues (my husband is a fierce anti-homework advocate which may not help the teachers’ opinions of her) and specifically she was way behind in her work due to illness right at the time they were writing them. Of course, she’s all caught up now!</p>

<p>Just another thing to worry over…</p>

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<p>Not at all presumptuous. They are now pretty much required for college recs. Think about it. A principal, teacher, counselor has a lot on their minds about what is happening and you are asking for a rec to remove a great kid from their school. Not exactly a job to tackle with gusto. And how well do they really know the kid? Even if they do, can they remember that she won the spelling bee last year, and was one of the kids on the Midnight run and organized it a few times, or was that some other kid? I have a number of children, and though I was blessed with an excellent memory for names, faces and people, I do get confused at times as to who is who. </p>

<p>Most of the recs the schools receive are generic and lack luster so it’s not going to be a minus. But a great enthusiastic one would have been a plus. They were so glad at the prospect of getting rid of one of mine, that I think he got one.</p>

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<p>Good point, CPT … there are at least a few things we could have reminded them about – distinguished instrumentalist in 7th grade, only 6th grader to make the quiz bowl team, not to mention her reputation for being able to mediate conflicts between cliques and support kids who are being bullied) that would have been nice to have mentioned. I’ll hope that because it’s a tiny school (20ish kids per grade) they were able to remember what they like about her!</p>

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<p>Thanks, cpt, very helpful. The cheat sheet makes great sense - wish I had thought of it. I just figured he knew our kid so well (has been in same school K-8), but you are absolutely right that he has more pressing issues to deal with, than helping to send off a thriving kid. A lesson learned, I guess. Will use the cheat sheet idea during the college app. process.</p>

<p>It’s good to know that recs from public schools are often lackluster, and that this one will not necessarily be a huge blemish. I hope her teacher recs are better…</p>

<p>Which brings me to another question - Way back in my day (30-35 yrs ago), my (public) high school teachers gave me copies of the recs they wrote for my college apps, even though I signed away my right to see them. I didn’t ask for it but they voluntarily gave me copies. None of my kid’s teachers did this for prep school recs. Am I to think that the letters are not very positive, or do teachers nowadays not volunteer to provide copies? None of the teachers has ever expressed any concerns about, dislike for, or anything else negative about, my child. One did say it was a pleasure to write a letter “for such a rock star”…but didn’t provide a copy of the letter. How should I take that?</p>

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<p>Honoraryamom, we didn’t request to see the recommendations for our children when they applied to prep schools. If the teachers have experience writing recommendations, they may send the recs directly to the schools as a matter of course.</p>

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<p>Assuming that by CA you mean Concord, they say that they focus on “particularly your transcript and letters of recommendation,” but also consider all other inputs. That said, they’re well aware that recommendations will be of varying quality, and will take into account that 8th grade recommenders from public school may not have the experience and/or time to write a detailed recommendation. They really do want as diverse an incoming class as possible.</p>

<p>We’ve never received a copy of a recommendation submitted to a secondary school, a summer internship, or a college. When asking for a recommendation, my kid did provide background info to recommenders that didn’t know her very well. She did have an interesting experience in requesting a recommendation for a summer internship from her science teacher at CA. After trying to decide which teacher to ask, she asked her previous year’s teacher because she got an A in that class and was getting a B in her current class. The previous year’s teacher said that she’d be happy to provide the recommendation, but would discuss it with her current year teacher to decide who would be better to write the recommendation. They decided that the current year teacher would be better because that teacher could give more examples about overcoming some problems my daughter encountered in the class.</p>

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<p>We did not see recs from teachers/guidance counselor/anything from the school. We did have to sign something for several schools saying we waived the rights to see the recs. </p>

<p>Outside of school we asked for two different people to write personal recs. One said he would write one, but his policy is that parents/students do not receive a copy. Some people have asked - mostly for college. He assured us that it would be a positive review (which is why we asked him). One other personal recommender asked for some general guidelines (he doesn’t write recs often), and sent us a draft before he submitted it. Actually he sent us two drafts - a ROTFL funny version, and a serious one. This was not a school that requested us to sign an agreement. </p>

<p>Other than one specific request we did not provide a cheat sheet for reviewers either. Good think to keep in mind for the next kid.</p>

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<p>OK, good to know that not receiving a copy of a rec from a teacher does not indicate a negative rec.</p>

<p>Yes, by CA I did mean Concord Academy. I sure hope at least one of the teacher recs is stellar.</p>

<p>The more I think about the principal’s letter, the more upset I get. My kid is a tolerant type who gets along with just about everyone, regardless of which clique they’re in. I thought this was obvious to the principal who has known her since kindergarten. From K-5 they put her in all the same classes with a very disruptive child where they were almost always had assigned seats next to each other, because my kid is so steady and tolerant. I felt sure that the principal would therefore make some sort of glowing comment about her personal traits. But no, nothing about social/personal issues, not even much about academic achievements. Now I feel like they just took advantage of her good nature (by pairing her with disruptive children) and couldn’t even give back to her with a few nice sentences in a letter of rec. What a disappointment.</p>

<p>Jah, I hope the smaller school means your daughter’s letters were glowing. Our school is larger, but not huge, though our principal always does appear rushed and overwhelmed. And my kid is a quiet type, so maybe she did not make as clear an impression as I had hoped.</p>

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<p>honorary, how disappointing. That is disturbing that they used your child as a kind of therapy dog for a disruptive child! We’re also applying to Concord - it’s a bit of a hike for us (nearly 3 hours, farther away from me than I feel comfortable with, though we have lots of friends and family in the Boston area) and my SIL went there in the late 80s. </p>

<p>I guess on balance I"m glad I don’t know what was in the recs because I don’t need one more thing to stew about.</p>

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<p>The problem with letting everyone see the recs is that then there is that issue of the negative ones. In this litigious time, can you imagine what would happen if parents could see those recs? How can any teacher, principal, counselor be expected to write an honest rec when the parent is hovering over them? In fact, I believe with college recs, you do have to indicate whether you have signed away your right to see those recs, and if you don’t sign and have access to those rec, they aren’t going to count as much. So if a teacher lets students/parents see recs as a matter of course, s/he has to be ready to discuss what is written and maybe spar with a parent. So most of the time the recs are kept private because if you let one person see them, and you don’t let another, it starts speculation that there might be something dire in the recs not revealed. Usually those who just hand the recs to the kids write excellent to generic ones, because who has time to bicker over these things? Anyone can give you the copy of what s/he writes, but with the waiver of the rights, you don’t have the RIGHT to see the ref. I’ve known a number of times when refs/recs were just handed to a student or parent even with the waiver, but that is not something the person has to do when the rights are waived, and that person is setting himself up for a problem if a situation comes up when he doesn’t want to show what was written and is asked and has set a precendent that he always shares the info. </p>

<p>As an unwritten rule, when you ask for a ref from someone who does not have to give one, that person is supposed to decline if s/he cannot give a positive one or doesn’t have the time to give a thoughtful, well written one. If one is required from a counselor or a specific teacher math/language, that’s a whole other issue. They are then required to give the ref as part of their job as a professional. </p>

<p>My son was a top athlete at his school and had all kinds of awards. The ref he got could have described almost anyone in the school, it was so generic, when we went through the process. I didn’t provide a cheat sheet either. In high school, most of the time the Guidance counslors hand out a sheet with things to fill in, for kids asking for references to list. With some teachers carrying loads of 150 students or more,and they have them only for one class many times, how the heck can they give any kind of personal reference other than about class performance that the grade may not cover.? So, in high school these sheets are built into the college app process most of the time.</p>

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<p>Good info, cpt. I do understand the potential problems that could arise for a teacher who hands out recs to students. I asked because I know it was commonly done in my public high school back in the late 70’s, even though most of us signed away the right to see them. But in that time and in that place, parents were much less involved in the college application process, and society was much less litigious. Things have changed…</p>

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<p>I would be disappointed, too, Honoraryamom, as I was when I read what the GC wrote for my son. But in his case, the form was given to her out of the blue by my son (yeah, I wasn’t on top of that) and she just quickly filled it out and handed it to me when she happened to see me at the school. I think she saw me and then just wrote the thing to get it off of her “to do” list. In retrospect, she would have been hard put to write down exactly what events and what sports honors he had won. I should have given her a list and she would have probably just written whatever I put down, as she clearly did not want to have to think about this. So it is with most people. Make it easy for them! I had one coach tell my son to write his own rec and he would sign. That’s how much he hated doing these things.</p>

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<p>Point well taken, cpt! Will provide cheat list in college app process. Live and learn.</p>

<p>Jah: yeah, I wish I hadn’t seen the letter. I can be quite a stewer myself, and really don’t need to be adding to the list of things to worry about as I try to fall asleep at night…</p>

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<p>@hornoraryamom
Please stop worrying about this! There is absolutely nothing you can do about this now except drive yourself crazy. SMS told us what they consider in order of importance: essay, interview, transcripts, ssat, and rec’s. I am sure that all the schools you applied to consider all these factors in varying order of importance and look at the whole child and not just one rec. Good luck and let us know what happened on M10.</p>

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<p>honorarymom and all: I very much identify with your situation (I can stew too!), having gone through the ref process twice now, including a s going from public to private. I did do “cheat sheets”, which just listed all extra curricular activities, length of involvement, and any honors (academic or other) received. I also included a thank you note in advance thanking teachers/prinicipal for their time filling it out; I never saw refs, and hoped for the best. They can count a lot (I have been told important as essay and interview, and more import than test scores, respectfully), or said differently, is a factor that can help you stand out amongst a pile of apps; Many feeder schools understand their importance as top admission criteria; so understand your frustration. Good luck, you deserve the best on Mar 10th!!</p>

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<p>In addition to being a mom I have also been on admission committees for my private school. I think a great rec. helps, one that points to potential problems hurts but a generic one, especially from a public school principal, has no impact whatsoever. When my son applied to his BS his principal, at a large public high school, had no idea who he was at all! We had to have another administrator fill it out who kind of knew him. I would not fret over this. Your child probably has at least one glowing rec. and no negative ones so try not to worry.</p>

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<p>Thanks all - yes, my understanding has been that recs are generally important, but all parts of the app and interview are considered. I’m coping. While I don’t think the principal rec is outright negative, it is bland, and obviously if all else is about equal, someone with a strong principal rec will get in over my kid. It is what it is.</p>

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<p>Honoraryamom, I don’t agree that “and obviously if all else is about equal, someone with a strong principal rec will get in over my kid.” The schools will expect feeder schools to write detailed recs. They will not expect a public school principal to write the same sort of rec. After speaking with your child for half an hour, the admissions people at the schools could well know him or her better than your principal! </p>

<p>Don’t tie yourself up in knots. If you want to worry, you can worry that the school needs a flugelhorn-playing water polo student from Nebraska, who’s a fifth generation legacy to boot.</p>