<p>"But reality check my friend. Would they measure up in prestige to Michigan? "
“Tsinghua is amazing too. But would you go for Tsinghua math over Michigan math?”</p>
<p>In Asia, YES. Michigan is not as famous as tsinghua back there~
and I’m speaking as a native Hong Kongese</p>
<p>lol actually, if you go to HK, and tell people that you go to UMich, they will mostly go like “cooool so you’re studying overseas?” instead of “OMG UMICH!!!” </p>
<p>the only schools that really can get such a response would be HYPSM and a few others…</p>
<p>I would go to Tsinghua math over Michigan math, definitely, if I have the proficiency in Chinese. Since I don’t, I would have gone to University of HK math over Michigan math. But, I’ll go to Michigan math over some Philippines University math anytime any day.
Undergraduate wise, there’s simply no way of comparing Tsinghua and Michigan. In Tsinghua, you’ll be studying along students who have devoted 12 years day and night for math and sciences, and who will always be ready to outcompete you when neccessary. In Michigan, you’re basically studying with sadistic High School kids with a shaky foundation in algebra, slow response to geometry, and if you’re lucky, a little bit of Calculus. Having good classmates is an important part of education, and in Michigan you’ll be surrounded by incompetent high schoolers with more interests in getting laid and attending parties than science and math, although that’s ironic given that Tsinghua is located in one of the most vibrant cities in the world and Ann arbor is just the suburb of a gloomy city and state.</p>
<p>^^^ Well said. I think UMich is not really that great for undergrad. It is a public school and is being used as a safety school by those Michigan high schoolers who are aiming to get into top 20 schools in the US. Plus, the acceptance rate for instate students is >45% and it’s not like Michigan is one of the most populous states in the US. So, the international prestige of UMich is mostly caused by its graduate programs (Business and Engineering).</p>
<p>“Having good classmates is an important part of education, and in Michigan you’ll be surrounded by incompetent high schoolers with more interests in getting laid and attending parties than science and math, although that’s ironic given that Tsinghua is located in one of the most vibrant cities in the world and Ann arbor is just the suburb of a gloomy city and state.”</p>
<p>another quote from the same person:</p>
<p>“RML, you won’t get anywhere nitpicking my reading comprehension, referring to popular myths and stereotypes, and generalizing about Asians.”</p>
<p>Anyone else see the irony?</p>
<p>“In Michigan, you’re basically studying with sadistic High School kids with a shaky foundation in algebra, slow response to geometry, and if you’re lucky, a little bit of Calculus.”</p>
<p>Mathdumb, generalize much?! LOL!</p>
<p>Here’s the difference, my generalizations are just supplementary to my arguments, RML’s generalizations ARE his arguments. Besides, does it take a politically careless person to observe the party spirit in American colleges? I mean, do you need to be extreme racist/fascist/communist/atheist/anti-american to notice that the difference between American and Asian colleges is that one looks forward to lectures while the other looks forward to binge-drink?</p>
<p>“Here’s the difference, my generalizations are just supplementary to my arguments, RML’s generalizations ARE his arguments.”</p>
<p>mathdumb, whether they are supplementary or not, they remain seriously flawed and incorrect. I hope most college students resort to neither extreme (studying or drinking). College should be about learning, both in and out of the classroom. It should be as much about understanding the world around you as it is about understanding yourself. It should also be a place where you make lasting friendships. </p>
<p>But why single out US universities? Do you honestly think students on UK, Canadian or Australian campuses are less prone to excessive drinking? At any rate, at the top universities, most students study far more than they drink. In fact, most of my friends and acquaintances at most US and Canadian universities hardly drank. If you think that students can binge-drink often and keep up with faculty demands and expectations at leadning research universities, you don’t understand the way professors operate. </p>
<p>As for Asian universities, perhaps you should ask the folks over at the Shanghai Jiao Tong University in China why their ranking of World universities has Michigan ranked among the top 25 overall universities on Earth (#6 in Engineering and #17 in Mathematics) significantly higher than any university in China or Singapore? I do not claim to be an expert on the Chinese mindset, but this is pretty damning evidence. Why should I believe you (who describes an entire student population as “sadistic” and Ann Arbor as a mere “suburb”) when I can so easily access a respected publication such as the SJTU rankings?</p>
<p>Or, if Chinese or Singaporean universities were indeed as strong in Mathematics (at the undergraduate level) as you claim them to be, perhaps you can explain why not a single Fields medalist graduated from a Chinese or Singaporean university. Please induldge us. Many did their undergraduate studies at Russian, French, Australian, US (including Michigan mind you) and UK universities, but not a single one from a Chinese or Singaporean university.</p>
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<p>Well, China is also a toxic waste dump ready to explode. </p>
<p>Why do you think the air and water quality has gotten so incredibly bad in Hong Kong? They are downstream from some of those nasty mainland factories.</p>
<p>And that’s just the periphery – what we know about and China cannot control. Can you just imagine what gets covered up over there? Kudos to Google for calling out China for more openness and transparency. The Chinese citizens will owe them a debt of gratitude in years to come.</p>
<p>btw, I think mathdumb used the wrong word when he used “sadistic”. He probably meant “hedonistic” as sadistic wouldn’t fit in the context of his post. </p>
<p>mathdumb is making giant generalizations about American and Asian college students. I don’t think college students in Asia always “look forward to lectures” (they are often under significantly more parental pressure to do so, however) or American students only look forward to “binge-drink”. Drinking, partying and “getting laid” in itself are not bad things as long as they do not affect schoolwork.</p>
<p>“As for Asian universities, perhaps you should ask the folks over at the Shanghai Jiao Tong University in China why their ranking of World universities has Michigan ranked among the top 25 overall universities on Earth (#6 in Engineering and #17 in Mathematics) significantly higher than any university in China or Singapore?”</p>
<p>This is because they take into account the Nobel phenomenon, which is parochial and racist. After the Cultural Revolution, formal tertiary education in China didn’t even resume until the 1970’s. Common, non upper class folks didn’t even get to go to college until the last decade. But, in the past 10 years, China has invested too much on education, too much, for America to catch up. Infrastructure wise, their universities, I guarantee, are unrivaled by any American college, ANY. Combined with a strong studying culture and tough students, I don’t see why it’s so difficult to understand that their academics are stronger than American universities.
It’s like the rail industry. Ten years ago, their trains were still operating at sub 75km/h levels. Now, they are running the most extensive, fastest, interconnected high speed rail system in the world. They now have lifted the average speed of REGULAR trains to 100km/h, that’s the same as the fastest train in America, the Acela Express.</p>
<p>In short, China doesn’t have 2 things that obstruct quick change:
<p>mathdumb, predicting the future is hard. For now, there is no evidence that would suggest the demise of the US or American universities…and that’s coming from an Arab with a French citizenship. You do realize that Arabs and Frenchmen aren’t exactly the biggest fans of the US right?! LOL!</p>
<p>And even if the Nobel Prize were racisit, the SJTU rankings are Chinese and as such, reflect Chinese sentiment. I will trust their ranking as a reflection of what the Chinese think over yours.</p>
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<p>If everything from the rail system (btw, does anyone even ride trains anymore?) to the education system is so damn awesome in China, why are the best students in China falling all over themselves to leave and enter universities in the US, UK, etc?</p>
<p>I mean, why leave China at all if its the ■■■■■? Is it because it is literally mostly ■■■■■?</p>
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<p>I don’t know about that, having visited both Peking University and Tsinghua (both in my hometown in Beijing), and Stanford and MIT. I can confidently say that Stanford and MIT has far better physical plants and infrastructures supporting research. Sure, Peking and Tsinghua might be catching up somewhat over the past few decades, but they are some years/decades off before they can compete with America’s best.</p>
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<p>I have my own doubts about the Peace and Literature prizes but the science Nobel Prizes has been generally uncontroversial. The science Prizes has been awarded to ethnic Chinese 8 times - which would not happen if the Nobel committees were “parochial and racist”. In fact, C.N. Yang and T.D. Lee were awarded their Nobel Prizes barely one year after their breakthrough investigation and discoveries involving parity violation in quantum mechanics.</p>
<p>“And even if the Nobel Prize were racisit, the SJTU rankings are Chinese and as such, reflect Chinese sentiment. I will trust their ranking as a reflection of what the Chinese think over yours.”</p>
<p>No they’re not Chinese leaning, that’s partly why it’s high regarded in the West. The ARWU is the only significant ranking in the world that’s based on solid numbers. They assign “grades” to the number of nobel alumni and faculty, along with other criteria like citations and publications, and calculate the total. I believe that Nobel alumni and faculty account for 50% of the total score. At any rate, they are still the fairest ranking out there, though. Other rankings, like US News, literally just survey people and ask them who they think are the best colleges, that way the Ivies usually stay on top.</p>
<p>“there is no evidence that would suggest the demise of the US or American universities”</p>
<p>Please, you seriously think that when states are taking away funds for public universities and subsidies for private ones, it says nothing about the future? You seriously think that the fact that American teens consistently rank in the 20s in Math and Sciences means nothing? That requires a lot of faith in the American race…</p>
<p>And FYI:
I am American (born+raised), so I don’t need a bunch of Chinese/French/Lebanese/British telling me how great my country is. I get it, we’re the greatest people on earth, right? Ok, I got it, I just don’t agree with it. There’s like 4 guys trying to pick out my reading/writing skills to prove that I’m not American and anti-American, which is silly because since when do Americans read/write well? I’m just offering an alternative to our great old traditional alternative, and I think we need more of these reflections to seriously prevent China from owning us practically everywhere again.</p>
<p>^ mathdumb, the average American wouldn’t post generalized and unverified statements (ex. the Chinese have better universities and infrastructure) like you have done in this thread. The United States is not perfect, but it is not the pessimistic picture you portray it to be.</p>
<p>“the average American wouldn’t post generalized and unverified statements”
What? Have Americans become politically sensitive angels now? I don’t get it. Why, in a free democracy, would an American cease to be a citizen when he portrays “pessimistic picture” of his country?
And I assure you, a communist will not know America’s problem in this great detail. Their propaganda machine is typically like “Imperialist America”, “Greedy Capitalist”, “Cowboy Diplomacy”. They would have no idea what our senate is like, let alone who Scott Brown is, the math curriculum here, and the state of our railways.</p>
<p>Wow, is this pertinent! My daughter (American living in the Middle East) just got into Michigan yesterday (where both her parents went) and also has offers from good British Universities–so far Leeds, Exeter, and she is waiting on University College London, like the person who started this thread. Cost is a factor for us, so England is cheaper, as she qualifies for the in-country fee–we only moved here from England a year ago. But we so want our American daughter who has never lived in America to have a U.S. College experience. She wants that too but we don’t qualify for financial aid…we earn just that little bit too much. I am going to print this thread for her as she can then look at the pros and cons…the con being student debt if she goes to Michigan…sadly!</p>
<p>Mathdumb, if you don’t like this country, leave. Nobody wants some *****y anti american kid in this country anyway.</p>