<p>^^^ I can only ask that those interested listen to the interview. Seemed to me her point was that these families' return on their investment in her was MUCH greater than their cost for her services - NOT that they simply broke even. And she was talking specifically about money (cost of services vs. fin aid), not intellectual growth, at least at that point in the interview.</p>
<p>I find the whole process dishonest, and unfair. The rural or urban smart kid, who really has taken all that he/she can take, and writes his own essays, edited by a teacher who went to a state school, will not come across like one of these packaged kids.</p>
<p>And I think Admissions Counselors often know who these kids are. How many parents here write about their perfect daughter, 1590 on the SATS verbal and math, a 4.76 weighted average, 25 ECs, great essays and recs, who doesn't get into a Ivy or Little Ivy school? I see a lot. Maybe the packaging was noted by the college and they passed. It is an explanation for some of those decisions that seem wacky. </p>
<p>After one interview at a very prestigious school, the interviewer told my son she hopes he applies because "they need more kids like him." He is a simple kid, with a love of history, and they talked history for an hour. No one tutored him for that, and no one is packaging him. I am checking his essays for spelling and grammar mistakes, and that is it.</p>
<p>And honestly - if X school turns him down after interviewing him (he is very sunny and outgoing) then I think that school was not for him. I do think that fate/God/karma gets most kids where they should be.</p>
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Maybe the packaging was noted by the college and they passed. It is an explanation for some of those decisions that seem wacky.
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</p>
<p>I think there is something to that. There is a different college admission counselor, not mentioned in this thread, who is nationally (in)famous for packaging a student (who, to be sure, might have got in on her own) for admission to a famous college. Then the famous college and all who knew the student were embarrassed by the widely reported story that the student had plagiarized writings of other authors in her first novel. That poisons the well for everyone (including the different college counselor mentioned in this thread) who advocates or seeks using a college admission counselor to help a student make a competitive case for getting into a highly selective college. I suppose some families think they are getting good value for the money from some college admission counselors in private practice, but all colleges now have to be a little more alert about how much in an application file is paid-for packaging and how much is the reality of the student.</p>
<p>I know lots of applicants who had their applications written by a "professional college counselor". Unfortunately, they did get into excellent schools, so there is no moral to this story! But I still believe there will someday be a payoff to making my kids do their own work.</p>
<p>Adigal - I know there is some debate about how much the interview weighs in the admission decision - but I really believe my D's interviews helped tremendously. If a kid has been packaged, they really can't fake a genuine love of learning in an interview. If an interviewer writes about that in their letter and teachers are saying the same things - then ad coms should know they have the real deal!</p>
<p>Here's hoping they acknowledge your son's enthusiasm and he is admitted.</p>
<p>"Maybe the packaging was noted by the college and they passed."</p>
<p>Yes, that's possible. But I also don't take anyone's word for it that the essays and recs were "great" (especially the essays).</p>
<p>There are way more kids who demonstrate a true love of learning than there are spots in highly selective colleges. </p>
<p>Also- don't forget that some kids do quite well monetarily by writing other kids' essays for them. There is a lot of gaming of the system (or attempts at doing so) going on.</p>
<p>When I applied to colleges a million years ago, Brown University required the essay (maybe the whole application, can't remember) to be hand written! At least that requirement would require some involvement by the applicant in the process. Maybe some universities will have to resort to applicants sitting in a proctored room for several hours and filling out applications and essays on their own without help.</p>
<p>Saying the $25,000 is worth it because of "full financial aid" is disingenuous IMO. Bard is need blind and less selective; it a student can get into Yale with MH's help s/he can surely get into Bard without. Their package was quite respectable and resembled the more elite packages we received closely.</p>
<p>Mom of Wild Child - you are probably right (about more kids with love of learning than spots) but my point is that those of us who did not have the $$ or the inclination for pricey services hope that our kid's depth and sincerity will somehow be recognized. If a kid is just "packaged" well, you would hope that the shallowness would come through in an interview. But then again I tend to be naive.</p>
<p>Y'know, for what it's worth. I have relatives with a ton of money and little time. I could see them using a service because they really can't provide the support that we do for our kids. I also clean my own house, and they don't. I am going to try to think of her service as a way for families who have more money than time to have their kids guided through the process. I am just in one of those think the best of everyone moods.</p>
<p>Does anyone here really know of someone who used a high-priced consultant? I live in the Boston area, my kids attend(ed) a private prep school, and I don't know anyone who has used one. I'm sure there are people in Manhattan or Beverly Hills who use consultants, but the only thing I've ever heard of is SAT tutoring -- usually through Princeton review or Kaplan.</p>
<p>My older son and several of his friends ended up at Ivy's and MIT, and I'm certain they all wrote their own essays and did their own research. There was no packaging involved. </p>
<p>Sometimes these stories strike me as urban myth.</p>
<p>Oh . . . baloney to it all. No one can turn a pigs ear into a silk purse. She really is just a master at expectation setting. And maybe that is worth $25k for some crazed parents. All I can really say is thank goodness for standardized tests - SAT, ACT, AP, SAT II, IB, etc. They are the only reality check in this game. My D says several kids at her hs routinely talk teachers into lifting their scores on tests from B to A. It's their special talent.</p>
<p>Nope, SJ. I live in the Boston area too, and know LOTS of people who have college consultants (don't think they are quite as pricey as MH). This really isn't urban myth.</p>
<p>But Mammall is also right. You really can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.</p>
<p>I know a lot of people who have used private counselors. One mom said she used a counselor because she worked so many hours she herself couldn't help with apps (she did anyway). A lot of what they do is get the things completed in time....parents don't want to be spending long hours stressing over the essays and so many kids apply to over ten places. Easier for a third party to call the kid and nag than for a parent to nag their own kid, right? There's a counselor near us who specializes in marketing athletes to colleges. I have no idea how successful this is.</p>
<p>Good friends of ours who live on the opposite coast both have very demanding jobs, and, I assume, have "more money than time". They did use a consultant when their child applied to college, but, from what I heard, the consultant did not do anything more than most of us on cc would do. The consultant helped find reasonable schools for the student and made sure the student gave the teachers the information they needed to write a recommendation (like an activity sheet). The student was rejected from the ED school she applied to, and was later admitted to another school. The only thing I heard about the consultant which struck me the wrong way was that my friend told me that the consultant had "gotten a neighbor's daughter off the waiting list at XXXX (a very good school) by calling the admissions office at the school." Who knows if this is really true as related to me, as it was not something my friend had personal direct knowledge of.</p>
<p>Most college admissions offices SAY they don't speak to the private consultants. I hope they wouldn't!</p>
<p>I do know Manhattan families who use such consultants (and families from the outer boroughs who have used finaid consultants!). And many middle-class families in NYC hire one-on-one ISEE, SSAT and SAT tutors starting at $150/hr up to $10K for top tutors from Advantage (Arun introduced the world to the concept of one-on-one test prep) for wealthier families. We've com a long way from the $600 Kaplan class.</p>
<p>I don't see how MH's services - - though certainly beyond my means - - are so diff than the other servics/prgms (sports camps/trainers, tutors, and exotic "service" prgm - -not to mention day/board sch tuition at $29K/34K) parents purchase to give their kids a competitive advantage. Is the problem paying for the packaging that the problem or the packaging itself, which may parents do (or attempt) for their own kids. Is PAYING someone to edit your kids essay bad/wrong, or is it bad/wrong for a parent/teacher/friend/andyone-other-than-the-student to be so intimately involved w/ the essay. </p>
<p>Plenty of parents are packaging/editing/hiding assest/gaming the system w/o the aid of MH and parents will continue to do so even if MH closes up shop.</p>
<p>And while after putting lipstick on a pig you still have a pig - - with the lipstick you (argu) have prettier pig and if it's a beauty contest for pigs . . . . movement at the margins can be important.</p>
<p>
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The only thing I heard about the consultant which struck me the wrong way was that my friend told me that the consultant had "gotten a neighbor's daughter off the waiting list at XXXX (a very good school) by calling the admissions office at the school."
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I wonder about this. It is my understanding that admissions people DON'T talk to consultants -- I think it would actually work AGAINST the applicant.</p>
<p>I would hate to farm this out. (jk!) Who would want to miss those arguments about when the DS or DD is going to work on that college essay or common app? How about the kid who decides at 11:30 pm on October 30 that he wants to apply EA to another school? (not that we had any of those kids in our house! lol)</p>
<p>I guess I view the application process as just that -- a process which is really the beginning of separation from mom and dad. I also wonder at the parents who get overly involved with essays. Neither of my kids are very receptive to my husband's or my opinions on their writing. At 17, they doubt that we know anything about college! I don't see them taking too much advice from a consultant either -- as if that were an option.</p>
<p>sjmom - Maybe the consultant suggested that the girl submit something to the school where she was waitlisted to express how much she was still interested in that school, and was then admitted off the waitlist. The story could have been changed in the retelling to the consultant calling the school, when that is not what actually happened.</p>
<p>I am convinced that there are consultants who call schools. I have actual anecdotal evidence of such! So, I don't really care whether the schools SAY they don't like to talk to consultants...the fact is...they do!</p>