@gigichuck My not scientific analysis, I would think that an absolutely top notch LAC would be the most supportive environment for you as a student. There is going to be quite a culture shock and with Amherst’s amazing teaching staff, I think you’ll get more personal support. Ambiance, location, outdoorness, not a big difference. Hanover is not quite two hours north of Amherst. It’ll be 5 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit colder.
As a field I think there are more exciting innovations/work in CS than ECE. Higher pay for CS. And I say this as an ME who is married to a E/ME (who transitioned into CS for much higher pay and opportunity) and DS1 is in CE. The 5 college consortium would probably only ne important to you for UMass.
I would think Amherst is the best for you: lots of individual attention and support, elite status and resources, flexibility of open curriculum, access to classes in the 5-college consortium, cool college town (and tens of thousands of college students).
Dartmouth is more insular and the reliance on Greek life and drinking would be a big turn off for me if I were coming from a culture where that is pretty much unacceptable (even if the prevalence of hard alcohol and drugs has seemingly been cut due to past excesses veering into actionable behavior and endangering students) despite the prestige. The weather and culture (and wealth) are going to be a shock no matter what so I’m not worried about one more month of freezing temperatures. Rather, Gigichuck hasn’t sounded like she’s looking for “wild” parties nor does she sound like the “work hard party hard” type and, frankly, due to her young age, I worry about the safety of a 16-year old girl mixing with Dartmouth Greek life.
Amherst has its fair share of drinking, but Greek life is not as prevalent nor is it as influential. Furthermore, with the Amherst town area and college consortia there are tons of things to do beside party, meaning peer pressure is not as strongly directed toward getting obliterated on weekends, even if Amherst students do get drunk on a regular basis. The pressure level is just different.
Now, Wesleyan is another possibility if I’m not mistaken. Artsier, quirkier than Amherst. More polarized politics I think.
^ @MYOS1634 Good point. For a 16 year that prevalent Greek culture like Dartmouth would not be a great choice. And I was in a sorority which I enjoyed (but that would be expensive).
The Dartmouth engineering program is a little bit of a “come-on” since the strictly liberal artsy version of the degree is only good for getting you into the ABET accredited program (the Bachelor of Engineering) which requires an additional year on top of the four you’ve already spent. At that rate, a dual degree with Amherst (or, any other LAC with a similar partnership) is just as feasible.
On the issue of insularity, as between Dartmouth and Amherst, it’s hard from my vantage point to tell which is the more insular. Dartmouth, certainly, by necessity. But, Amherst has always seen itself as the pearl of the Pioneer Valley oyster and you rarely hear Mammoths (their new mascot) admit that they attend events on other campuses. The town itself is a pleasant non-entity.
For me, it’s not so much about choice but danger. I am not comfortable recommending the Dartmouth scene to 18 year olds who aren’t into that sort of scene. It’s just unsafe. Gigi will be 16, which makes is more unsafe.
I hadn’t thought of the extra cost associated with sororities/fraternities, which would be another problem.
How to save money: Gigi doesn’t need to move off campus. Her financial aid covers miscellaneous expenses - the $4,000 are likely for stuff like books and personal expenses, NOT direct costs. Top schools typically even include an allowance for winter clothes.
Ways to save money on personal expenses: rent books or buy them used + make a beeline to the library to see what books are on reserve (on a special shelf that no one can take out from the library and there all semester long for students in the class that uses the book).
Hopefully friends will take you home for Thanksgiving and Christmas breaks.
Go to the free programming on campus: films, concerts, entertainment, conferences, arts&crafts, etc. There’ll be plenty of options.
Be frank when your friends tell you to join to go out with them and say you can’t afford it. Do allow yourself one such outing a month so as to not be a social outcast (or, if your roommate happens to be a billionaire’s child, let her “treat” you from time to time - I’m serious, $10 is nothing for a very wealthy kid so don’t feel ashamed if it makes them happy, but be very careful not to assume and definitely only do that once in a rare while). A better way to handle this is to have memorized cheap or free places where you can go instead and suggest that as an alternative.
Shop in rich-neighborhood churches’ thrift stores. Your basic Episcopalian basement bargain is likely to be a twice-used outfit from 3 years ago, not a 10-year old worn out one. Ask other international students where the best bargains are. You’ll also find “cheap” clothes at places like Walmart if you’d rather buy new but they’re unlikely to last.
DO buy your sheets, pillow case, and mattress topper NEW. I recommend cotton or cotton blend but avoid synthetic fabrics. (No idea how used to linen shopping you are). There’ll be “dorm bargains” in area supermarkets just beore college starts and your orientation will take you there. Beware: The first night, you’ll likely sleep on a mattress with just a pillow and a blanket and it’s a really lonely feeling to be without bedding and scratched by cheap college wool as you’re exhausted from the flight, but it’ll get better - it’s often the very worst night for new international students.
Necessary expenses that can come from a thrift shop or recycled from former internationals who donated it to the college upon leaving: desk lamp, small rug, small trash can, “milk crates”, shower caddie.
You need to email each International Admissions office to ask whether they keep old coats and old boots for international students who come from warm less-developed countries. Ask what is planned during Fall and Spring break for internationals (since they can’t go home).
@MYOS1634 speaking of expenses, won’t she need to pay taxes on the scholarships that go beyond tution books and certain fees, like room and board? With the new tax laws it won’t matter her parents income level.
I don’t think she’ll have to pay taxes on R&B or perhaps it’s included in the “miscellaneous” - top colleges have a very broad “miscellaneous” cost so it may encompass the tax as well as a very big “books” costs (<- that amount is not taxable).
^what I mean is that it may not be supplemental but already incorporated into the money under “miscellaneous”. In other words I don’t know of international students who attend full need colleges and are bamboozled by these taxes so I assume something is planned.
@gigichuck Did Dartmouth offer you five years of financial aid? It looks like after four year that you only get a BA in engineering science and have to go a fifth year for the professional Bachelor of Engineering? That looks like a problem if you didn’t get five years of $.
In the past the taxable scholarship was based on parents income which could have resulted in no taxes owed for low income families, now it’s based on the estate/trust tax rules so everyone pays at the same rate. I don’t think the IRS considers “miscellaneous” as not taxable. I point this out because the rules have changed and this is something that needs to be considered, I’m personally very curious as to how this is going to play out at ‘meets full needs schools’. As with much in government, I really don’t think this change was well thought out. Many students don’t know that “full rides” are taxable because of the room and board part.
@gearmom Dartmouth only listed financial aid for 2018-2019. I assume they revise it every year. Need-based aid is available for the fifth year (not sure if they meet full-need for this) but housing is not guaranteed.
@gigichuck If you HAVE to go five years for engineering, you could do the first three at Amherst and consider the last two at Dartmouth for a 3 + 2. @MYOS1634 Could that work for her financially?
Unfortunately Dartmouth doesn’t offer an easy and straight forward normal 4 year ABET engineering program. Because of that, you could also just take straight CS (making sure you hit engineering prerequisites) and take CE in grad school.
I really think Amherst would be a more comfortable, supportive, safer environment. You can reach out to the Nigerian American Society also which would be nearby.
A 16 year old girl in a more isolated heavily Greek school isn’t awesome. It’s the boys really. They’ll be drunk and foolish. At a later age once you have acclimated to the US, you could look into what @CottonTales DD? did and 4 years at Amherst with grad school at Dartmouth. That would probably work out better. Do you think that is possible @MYOS1634 However, I am also a huge fans of UMass Amherst’s grad program in CS and that could be worth a look. Really, having gone to the top LAC in the US for CS (assuming you’d choose that), you should have many grad school options. We’re just looking to help you make sure that your time as an undergrad is as successful as possible.
Wesleyan upperclassmen have widespread access to full kitchens thanks to the university’s in-town location. The cost is probably the same since the university owns most of the best housing stock and pays for their upkeep. But, they’re a viable alternative to living in dorms all four years.
Ask other international students where the best bargains are. You’ll also find “cheap” clothes at places like Walmart if you’d rather buy new but they’re unlikely to last.