International with pretty low scores, but high hopes

Chance Me / Match Me!
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<p>@aunt bea,you might have misunderstood what I said. I am not an expert in admissions, and I can only assume neither are you. However, I still stand true to my statement. If people like me don’t have a single chance, then why aren’t competitive universities making this information public? Why don’t they just disclose what is the minimal SAT score one should have in order to “stand a chance” at their school? Two words: Holistic Admissions. The US college admissions process is one of the very few in the world that claims to look at an applicant as a whole, rather than just some numbers on a page. That’s why everyone who applies virtually has a chance.</p>

<p>That being said, it doesn’t mean I am being delusional and have high hopes of getting admitted to a top school. I don’t live under a rock. </p>

<p>@paul2752, As far as I know, in the admissions process, I am competing against other internationals, not American citizens. Most(if not all) colleges have a quota for international students. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Therefore comparing me to an American applicant doesn’t make any sense at all. </p>

<p>“You should be aware that there are hardworking and struggling students in the USA already who study, work for family(and/or deal with un-supportive, drug-addicted, and/or abusive parents or family member), participate in extracurricular activities, and contribute to the society/community all at once.
THAT is the “overcoming struggle”, and I personally know those people-many of whom became Questbridge Finalist.
I m not saying that studying hard while having economic issue is not a big deal, but I have a feeling that you are not working hard enough to ‘overcome’ your obstacle.”</p>

<p>You jumped to conclusions too fast. Contrary to your belief, I didn’t write in here my entire socioeconomic background and I do not have the intent of doing so in the future, even under anonymity. Also what makes you feel that I am not working hard enough to overcome my obstacle? I’d really like to know.</p>

<p>"…your ECs are mediocre(participating in many clubs with no significant achievements is pointless and time consuming)." </p>

<p>Exactly since when is manifesting interest in a broad range of areas pointless? Unlike many others, I didn’t spent 4 years of my life trying to look good on paper. I spent this time exploring and trying new things I was genuinely interested in. Even so, I managed to achieve some honors and leadership positions. I think that spending your high school years trying to receive recognition is more “pointless” and “time consuming” than what I did. This shouldn’t be misinterpreted. I do not condone anyone who chooses this path. It is just my opinion.</p>

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<p>^^^You are also competing with other CITIZEN students.</p>

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<p>I may be wrong about “you don’t seem working hard enough”, but all I can say is that you should study A LOT for the SAT or ACT…</p>

<p>Second, what I really meant by “pointless” is only for the admission purpose. I apologize for not being clear. I am not saying that one should concentrate on a few things-and I have no right to tell them-but it is highly recommended so. 4 years fly REALLY fast, and trying to find what you are genuinely interested should be done really quickly so that you can concentrate on that. Again, admission officers-and many will agree on this-look for what you have significantly accomplished. People who apply to selective schools have something to show; it could be just for writing in app to make it more fancy, but many people who win awards, reward, etc do so because they are genuinely interested.
Being interested in many things, while it is good for your personal life, is not enough for the people who spend heck a lot of time to pick who they think are very talented, hard working, and motivated. </p>

<p>Lastly, 'I do not condone anyone who chooses this path," who are you to condone someone else?
Also, it is simply just a fact that a student with state/national level awards in a few activities are perceived better than a student who participated ONLY in various groups.</p>

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<p>@paul2752 , I meant to say “condemn” not “condone” , my bad.</p>

<p>I see your point about finding what you really are passionate about in a short time, but then why are all top colleges still admitting a number of undecided students? I see it a bit differently, if you are really passionate about a couple of things, it’s up to you to decide if you want to just focus on them or if you want to broaden your knowledge even further in other areas. I don’t see how this choice can make you more or less competitive. Generally, colleges appreciate both strength in one specific area and how well-rounded you are.Again, it’s another question how one chooses to balance these two.</p>

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<p>@collegedreams11 , don’t get so defensive. True, a holistic process takes into account your entire application, but you simply cannot deny the fact that your test scores are well below the norm for the schools you have listed. Why do you think these elite schools should admit you when they have thousands of applicants with your grades who ALSO have significantly higher test scores?</p>

<p>Why should these schools restrict your ability to apply? They are happy to take your application fee. It’s up to you whether you feel it is worth your time and money to apply.</p>

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<p>Because there are many people who are talented, for example, mechanics, mathematics, arts, etc,
and they do show their potential during high school. Yet, they are not sure what they will do in future, and colleges are looking at such people’s potential. Why do you think people change their majors at least once in college?
And how do they show their potential? Well the only way is to win awards in competition, lead your team in school, invent something new, etc.(not talking curing cancer or something)</p>

<p>Also, well rounded doesn’t always go with being a member of multiple clubs.
Well rounded would be something like a kid who is very inclined and excels in science, AND have interest in non science fields like arts and ceramics.</p>

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<p>@mnm111, I’m not getting defensive, just stating my opinion. I don’t deny the fact that my scores are way below the average, in fact that’s one of the main reasons I came here, on these boards.</p>

<p>Also, I’m not that entitled to think that “these elite” schools should admit me. It’s entirely their decision and I won’t be upset if they reject me, which they most likely will. I already said that I’m applying to these more as a joke. But just because the odds are low, doesn’t mean they are nonexistent.
As for the fees, hopefully, they will be waived. </p>

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<p>I respect that you are a dreamer. It’s a great quality. </p>

<p>Why do you think your application fees should be waived? Don’t you pay if you buy a lottery ticket?</p>

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<p>@mnm111‌
Common App fees are usually waived if the GC signs the Common App fee Waiver, but I don’t know if the OP’s school has GCs who handle it. The form is on common app, and student print it to give it to GC. That’s what I did.
Some schools automatically waives it, but I don’t know which ones do that.
Or you can use College Board one and mail it to admission office. My GC did it for me.</p>

<p>@collegedreams11‌
If you are applying to these prestigious schools more as a joke, shouldn’t you do that AFTER improving your scores? </p>

<p>I am also a foreigner, and I had 2250 SAT, had 5s in majority of APs, had two 800s in two SAT II, and had awards in a few competition, and still didn’t get in(my essays weren’t the best of the best, but decent enough) prestigious schools.
Or, many of my international friends who are economically struggling like I, had even higher stat and didn’t even get in any schools they applied.
Only two people I know got in Bryn Mawr and Harvard. Both Full ride. But,</p>

<p>THEY WORKED SO HARD TO COMPETE WITH EVERYONE.</p>

<p>I am not trying to ridicule or make you feel bad with ill intention but I wish that you have some strategies about where to apply; I myself had to go through a lot of application processes, and I hope that you make a good choice of looking to some safeties schools. At the end, I got into U of Oregon and U of Alabama, and chose U of Alabama because I got full OOS tuition, which is like 24950 per year. Unfortunately my visa hasn’t been approved in time, so I have deferred admission and scholarship to Spring 2015 semester(I wish I had been able to apply on April, but several college results came out late)</p>

<p>As @MYOS1634‌ said, if you have 1800+ in SAT, then you might have chances to get in state schools-except UVa, NYU. Your ACT 21 is like 1550 SAT with rough conversion, and that is far lower than average. So.work on that. </p>

<p>Lastly, when do you graduate?</p>

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<p>Good advice from @paul2752 . From someone who has been there. The OP should heed this sage advice.</p>

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<p>OP: let’s get real for a minute.
Do you want to attend a good college in the US, with a scholarship?
or
Do you want to brag you’ve applied to Harvard?
We could be wasting our time if all you want is being able to say you applied to Harvard.
If you are serious about admissions, buy Steinberg’s The Gatekeepers ASAP and read it as soon as you get it.
You have a shot at some pretty good colleges but you clearly need to educate yourself quickly about the process. Once we know whether your goal is wishful thinking/self esteem or actual applications, we’ll be able to help better.</p>

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<p>No, I don’t want to brag that I applied to Harvard. Sorry if I come off as foolish as that.
I am actively searching for other colleges, where I may actually have a shot. Your advice has been really helpful, so thank you. </p>

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<p>Are you going to take the ACT or SAT in October?</p>

<p>Look into
Berea
Gustavus Adolphus
Kalamazoo
Carroll of Montana
Millsapps
Mount Holyoke</p>

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<p>Are you going to take the ACT or SAT in October?</p>

<p>Look into
Berea
Gustavus Adolphus
Kalamazoo
Carroll of Montana
Millsapps
Mount Holyoke
If you rank #1 in your class, you could apply to Elmira (they have a full tuition scholarship
for students ranked #1 in their class, as long as you apply before Jan 1)</p>

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<p>

Holistic admission process doesn’t mean that everyone has a chance. It means that if you fulfill an institutional need, some aspect of your application will be overlooked due to something else that’s exceptional. For instance, it may mean that they’ll overlook scores in the 1900-2100 range (their bottom 25%) if you’re international-level something, a chess prodigy for instance. If your school doesn’t offer AP classes, it won’t be counted against you, but you need to show you tried to get something equivalent, perhaps with dual enrollment at a community college or with online learning or by developing a project with a teacher’s help. For schools in the top 20 to consider you despite a score below 1900, you’d have to have been homeless living in steam tunnels on your own, or something equally traumatic explaining school results well-below what would be acceptable.
“an international student in need of FA is the opposite of that” because there are very few international students who aren’t poor by American standards. Very few international families have 65k to spend each year for their child’s education. So, being an international in need of FA is the norm. However, the budget for international students’ financial aid is limited; whereas Americans have access to federal loans and grants to supplement the university"s grants.
For extra curricular activites, schools in the Top 25 LACs and Universities will expect something demonstrating you are among the best in your country for the activity/ties you chose.
They don’t want well-rounded people, they want a well-rounded class, with exceptional achievements in all realms. Being well rounded, for such schools, means being an International Math Olympiad finalist along with making delicate embroidery or ranking nationally at standup paddling or having an instagram account with 30,000 individual subscribers…PLUS a couple things where you’re the best in your school (captain, director, etc.)
More modest achievement will be valuable for private schools in the 50-125 range. Strong achievement for competitive scholarships, and for HOnors College admission.</p>

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<p>I’m going to apply to Berea for sure, I forgot to list it here for some reason, I’m also considering Mt. Holyoke . Didn’t have enough time to research the other ones you posted sine I’ve been busy with test prepping. I have studied a lot lately and took another practice test two days ago and got a solid 1900. I got CR; 750 Math :550 Writing : 600.
I made the best progress on CR, I still can’t believe I improved so much on it in a relatively short time. I checked like 5 times just to make sure it was right. Math is still pretty mediocre. It seems easy at first, but I am just not used to the kind of questions it has( where I’m from, we focus more on problems that are nothing like those on the SAT ). </p>

<p>I’m taking it on Oct 11, which is like in a week. I wish I had known earlier about the importance of SAT prepping. Maybe I would of prioritized my time better. However, in case of a total fail, I can still retake it in December, which is a reassuring thought , despite the additional expenses it implies.</p>

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<p>@MYOS1634, I have a question, what are usually the main criteria for merit scholarships? Is it just test scores and GPA ? </p>

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<p>In most cases, yes. For the very competitive ones, they also consider awards + whether you fulfill an institutional need.</p>

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<p>@MYOS1634, in that case, do you think that getting a 1900 score is good enough given my other stats? Or should I consider retaking it again in December? </p>

<p>Also, does winning a highly competitive scholarship for a foreign exchange program count as an award? Or having over 100 community service hours? </p>

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<p>1900 would be okay but not a shoo in for Berea. That would place you within range for full tuition, fees and room costs at Howard (leftover costs: “board” ie., food, books, and of course transportation to DC.) </p>

<p>Someone above gave you the link for automatic scholarships. Click on it and see what’s available for 1900.
In most cases however the threshold is at 2100. For competitive scholarships, it depends on the school, but 2000-2100 would suffice for the least competitive. For schools like Duke or UVA, it’s so competitive there’s no way to assess.</p>

<p>Winning a highly competitive scholarship counts as a big award. You need to describe the degree of selectivity (ie., “36 chosen out of 2600 candidates”, “awarded to 100 students in the entire country”, etc.), the scholarship amount, describe it a little. </p>

<p>100 community service hours counts as volunteering. It’s not an award unless the group for which you volunteered gave you an award. You can divide that into categories (tutoring roma children, helping in the welcome area of the hospital, handing out food at the shelter, managing the school food drive…)</p>

<p>Focus on the math section. It’s typically the easiest section to improve. Use number2.com, register for question of the day, and practice practice practice. Whatever mistake you’ve done, go over it. Find similar questions and do them all until you get them perfect twice. This, for each mistake.</p>