Is a B.A. Music Major at a disadvantage in school with conservatory?

College Majors Music Major
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<p>We are doing research like crazy and find that reading catalogues is essential, beyond the viewbook. Looking at LACs or small universities that have conservatory or very strong music department. S does not feel he's ready for all-music-all-the-time (and recognizes that as a bass-baritone, he has a relatively new instrument!) but music is still the #1 priority.</p>

<p>Oberlin, for example. Looks as if a Music Major in the College of Arts and Sciences has pretty decent access to Conservatory course, but not all of them, and has chance/obligation for regular voice lessons. But in reality, are B.A. Music students allowed much access to ensembles? (Of course Con students will be playing many hours a day compared to a BA Music major, but is voice a different story?)</p>

<p>And Lawrence seems to have a similar relationship. But again, are many courses really open to B.A Music Majors? And, more importantly, are BA kids looked down upon by BMus kids? I can't imagine they would be, but would like to know.</p>

<p>And then there are the smaller universities with schools of music or colleges of the arts (looking at Vanderbilt, Illinois Wesleyan, Furman, CMU, Rice). Do non B.Music kids get into ensembles? He heard at St. Olaf that it's tough even for seniors to get into the St. Olaf Choir, but the Chapel Singers (whom we also heard) were fabulous, too, so I'm guessing that all levels of ensembles are excellent in schools that have conservatories or super-strong music departments.</p>

<p>Rice: Seems there is no Bachelor of Arts Music major at Rice unless a School of Music student petitions to change from B.Music to B.Arts--but no incoming freshman can declare a BA arts major (correct me if I am wrong). Have to go through Shepherd's first, so that's pretty darned exclusive! A BA history major could conceivably audition for a Rice ensemble, it seems, but music courses for non-Shepherd students are quite limited, according to catalogue (Rice is a big reach for S, but I love what I hear about it).</p>

<p>The other option is a LAC with a pretty darn good music program. Son's GC gave him a list of colleges with notable music programs (some publication called RUG?) with Carleton (a reach but so fabulous), Connecticut College (a wee bit close!), Skidmore, Kenyon (don't know much about these two), and some west coast schools, but he says Minn/Texas is as far west as he wants to go.</p>

<p>But back to my question! Just wondering if a non-conservatory music lover could survive happily with conservatory kids and program.</p>

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<p>Wow, neumes!! You and I could practically combine our 2 threads together! </p>

<p>You are farther into the research than we are, but I'm hoping to learn from your replies as well. </p>

<p>CC has been a godsend for me in this journey! :)</p>

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<p>We found some universities with music schools that were not necessarily conservatory level had a better integrated program of BA and BM. They often had a large music ed program too. . DD like University of South Carolina and they seem to do it that way. They are also generous with scholarship, allowing in state tuition for any OOS scholarship recipient so they became a financial safety too. You can find good teachers at many of these.</p>

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<p>Talking to teachers, administrators and students at the schools is even more important than reading the catalogs. The catalog gives you the official position, but you need to find out what is actually going on. Perception can vary depending on who you ask.</p>

<p>At Oberlin, the Musical Union is an excellent choice for choral singers who do not make the top conservatory group. It is the second oldest continuing choral tradition in the US (behind only Boston's Handel and Haydn Society). They are conducted by conservatory faculty, often the same person who conducts the conservatory chorus. They sometimes perform with one of the main conservatory orchestras and sometimes with the orchestral groups that are oriented toward the college and community. Singers cannot put in quite as many hours per day practicing as, say, string players can, so perhaps there is a better chance for a non-conservatory singer to get into one of the top conservatory groups.</p>

<p>As you mentioned, the St. Olaf Chapel Singers is a wonderful group, if not quite on the level of the St. Olaf Choir. A friend's daughter made the SOC in her second year as a voice student there, having been in Chapel Singers her first year. While difficult, it is possible to get into the top group even before senior year.</p>

<p>I can't tell you much about the other schools you mention.</p>

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<p>The book you reference is called Rugg's Recommendations on the Colleges. It's an annual college guide that has lists for every possible major and ranks schools by how strong their programs are. A book of lists, but a place to start. It has no specific information on the individual schools, but can provide good leads.</p>

<p>Also check out Carol J. Everett's book (Peterson's College Guide for Performing Arts Majors). It was finally updated after several years.</p>

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<p>singersmom07, Thanks for the lead on USC. I've been encouraging S to look at big universities (USC is over 20,000 I think?) and he is--at the moment--not interested in the extra-large size. I've mentioned UMich, U maryland, UW-Madison, UT Austin, UNC (impossible for OOS), and when we went to Minn. to look at several LACS, I drove over to U Minnesota (excellent music) and he just said NO! He has the impression that everyone is a gung-ho sports nut at big schools and he doesn't follow sports (he is a rower, but that's really introspective sport!) and he just likes a more intimate setting (probably from hanging out in the theater wing of the giant (2,700) high school for the last 3 years! He loves that intimate camaradarie, despite the occasional, excuse the pun, drama. (But he's not interested in pursuing MT at all--he's into classical music, especially early music and the contemporary choral composers).</p>

<p>I keep saying that a music department--any specialized area--makes the school virtually a smaller, cozier place (I studied architecture in grad school in a giant state U and hardly trod on 80% of the campus!). So maybe he'll look into the bigger universities.</p>

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<p>librarian377, thanks for the name! The GC copied all the pages pertaining to music for S. I had looked up the Everett book on Amazon and it said not out until Oct. 7 but your reference to it made me go back--there is a current edition out now, but there's a 4 to 6 week shipping time! I'm ordering anyway, as time flies!</p>

<p>BassDad, thanks for info about Oberlin and St. Olaf. S is worried because several singing friends who go to good LACs in northeast say their chamber choral ensembles aren't as good as the high school ensemble or church consort he sings with. Perhaps it's a bit of teenaged smugness!</p>

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<p>We found that if you were in the music department at all, you were in a small school even in a large university. Also South Carolina had a music interest dorm and a scholars dorm she also qualified for. Reduces the "bigness". She likes sports so that was not an issue, more like she might not find as many music folks who did. She also goes to a large HS, 700 in her graduating class, so large university did not phase her. She is used to finding small groups in a large setting. But each has to find their own fit in the end.</p>

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<p>Actually, I have heard some college groups that were nowhere near the quality of some of the better high school groups in this area. I do not think it is entirely teenaged smugness. That should definitely be a concern for your son.</p>

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<p>Neumes---(I know that So Cal. is a long way off for your S) but have you looked at Chapman? Dr Hall (a great choral conductor) heads up the school of music. And they are VERY generous with merit scholarships.</p>

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<p>Wesleyan is a great LOC w/ an excellent music program.</p>

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<p>Patsy55, we've just decided that the distance to California is too expensive for frequent flying, but thanks for suggestion.</p>

<p>guitargirl, I've read about your daughter's wonderful admissions and was interested that Wesleyan was one of her choices. I looked at their website and son has sent for info--got a sense that world music is huge but not that classical music was a big part of the program--but because your daughter is a classical guitarist, your post had me going back to their website and I found that their early-music choral ensemble is singing on Sunday afternoon (90 min. from here). Maybe S can do AP test studying in the car!</p>

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<p>neumes- Being in Connecticut, I assume you looked at Hartt. Our experience (instrumental performance) is that they have been very generous with merit money. I don't know if there vocal programs might suit your needs. <a href="http://harttweb.hartford.edu/adm-programs-music.asp?id=17%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://harttweb.hartford.edu/adm-programs-music.asp?id=17&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Furman welcomes performance majors, BAs, and ECs into their program. My D applied there as a BA with intent to double major, and received quite a tidy music scholarship for violin and no pressure to do performance. It was her favorite school, but the only school that didn't also offer her merit, so we had to turn it down. They have a good reputation here in the south for vocal music, too.</p>

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<p>violadad, I've heard Hartt has a good choral program and I was under the impression that they were strictly a professional music degree program but I just did some reading and they do have a B.A. Didn't know that--we'll definitely look into it. Thanks!</p>

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<p>Read this thread for sure.</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=332253%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=332253&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>(Oberlin is discussed on this board ad nauseum if you ask me, but, well, there it is.)</p>

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<p>weenie, thanks. I can't believe I didn't see this thread before I started this one--maybe I skipped over it because jazz was the topic but there are many observations that pertain to S's case. S is not at the academic level as the S of the OP (my S has 4.1 weighted--swears it's going up!) so he's going to be a big-reach candidate at top LACs, but he needs to do the same type of thinking about the availability of top ensembles at music-heavy schools versus the quality of top ensembles at higher, if not top, LACs. Although I have heard that voice is a little different. In any case, thanks for the link. There is much to learn/read/think about.</p>

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<p>binx, thanks--we will definitely look into Furman. I was a bit confused your mention of a scholarship for violin but not merit, so I went to the music scholarship thread and see that there are indeed separate categories. The more I learn, the more I see how little I know!</p>

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<p>I am really bad at complete thoughts and tend to shorthand a lot. You have no idea how difficult it is for me to write in complete sentences. Or talk in them. My family gets mad at me for never finishing my sentence. (I grew up in a family that constantly interrupted - very ADD family - and just don't have the practice getting to finish thoughts! :) )</p>

<p>Anyway, I should have said "music merit" and "academic merit". At Furman she got only "music merit". At Allegheny (which doesn't have any music scholarships) she got only "academic merit." At the other three schools that accepted her, she was awarded both.</p>

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<p>binx, thanks! Ditto on the difficulty completing a thought--I am always hearing, "Mom, finish the sentence!" from my sons and don't know why they can't just understand what I mean, not what I say, and why they don't value my stream-of-consciousness method of talking.</p>