Is a "top college" worth it?

Applying to College
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This definitely complicates the financial aid picture. Most Profile schools will want income AND assets from all of the parents and spouses. The net price calculators will not be an accurate reflection of net costs.

The FAFSA EFC also won’t be reflective of the net costs either…since the FAFSA does not ask for the income or assets of both divorced parents. @kelsmom what is the new way to determine which parent is reported on the FAFSA?

Simply adding both parents incomes and assets together will not give an accurate net price calculator net price. It should be viewed as an estimate only.

I think chasing merit aid is a very good idea…because that won’t take parents incomes and assets into account at all.

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Only the custodial parent and new spouse are listed IF the custodial parent has remarried.

But remember, the custodial parent is no longer the parent with whom the student resides the most. IIRC, that has been changed to the parent who provides the most financial support.

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That will change next year, for 2024-25.

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Then this family should keep this in mind for subsequent years…especially if there is a large difference in income from one parent to the other.

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Agreed. OP has everything they need in my post above, around #38 or so, to get started.

Once they let us know those results we can better help, but it does sound like merit hunting and/or in-state schools(Louisiana) will be cornerstones of the list.

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Not exactly true. Or at least not any more true than math or philosophy majors having a high degree of success in med school admission.

Pre med success rates from all of those majors have very high degree of selection bias involved.

i.e While many (perhaps even most) bio majors plan on applying to med school, extremely few music/math/philosophy/English/pick any liberal or fine art major do. This means those who do make the extra effort to take the science pre-reqs, do well in them, and participate in the all the expected pre med ECs are unusually highly motivated toward medicine and make sure that their pre-med prep ticks off the boxes before applying.

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To answer the question you asked, yes “top” colleges can definitely be worth it. They provide outstanding resources, a rigorous education and strong connections. That being said, if your budget is only $25k and the schools don’t offer enough merit or need based aid (far more generous at elite schools) to fill the gap then they aren’t worth it (in my view). I wouldn’t encourage a student to take on $100,000+ in debt for an undergraduate degree - especially one who is considering medical school. Also, as a student what you can borrow directly is limited (around $28k total over 4 years) - anything over that would need to be co-signed by a parent.

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Yet, as a rule, the percent of LAC graduates who do their PhDs is higher. Of the top 100 colleges by percent of graduates who end up with PhDs, 65 are LACs, of the top 50, 32 are LACs, of the top 25, 15 are LACs, and of the top 10, 6 are LACs, including #2 and #3, with #1 being Caltech, which has as many undergrads as a medium sized LAC, and #4 is Olin, which is a tiny college.

This is ranked by PhDs received between 2001 and 2020 divided by undergraduates awarded 1992-2011.

BTW, New College of Florida has a higher percent of students who ended up with a PhD than any Ivy. So this is not a “ranking” issue either.

I mean, we can talk until tomorrow about which is better, but, and the end of the day, kids who attend a LAC are more likely to end up doing a PhD.

Large universities have their own advantages, and they are many, but increasing one’s chance of getting into a PhD program is not one of them.

PS. In my own opinion, for a person who wants to do a PhD, there is no advantage for either. I think, though, that either that LACs have more kids who have interests and plans that include a PhD, or that students that attend a LAC find the idea of doing a PhD to be more attractive…

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Maybe because students graduating from LACs aren’t as likely to have a preprofessional bachelor’s degree such as business administration or engineering? I remember that graduate school looked pretty attractive to me, with a bachelor’s in philosophy.

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Lots of good suggestions here.
Mine $0.02 is to apply to schools that are solid and have a medical school attached to it. For example, look at USF’s 7-year BS/MD combined program. With your stats, you will go to school pretty cheaply. And, if you hit the benchmark - 515 on MCAT and 3.75 GPA, you are assured of an interview at Morsani.

I believe Florida International has a similar program. In fact, many colleges do.
Unpopular opinion perhaps, but I am a big believer in going to a college that has an attached med school for exposure, research and volunteer opportunities.

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I also think that faculty at LACs have more job satisfaction, so LAC students are more likely to see a faculty job as an attractive career choice:

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Probably at least in part due to student self selection, since more preprofessional students who want to go to work after a BA/BS in a preprofessional major like business are unlikely to choose a LAC that does not have preprofessional majors like business.

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I went to UF. My kid goes to WVU. Both offer stellar merit aid for your stats. UF is ranked higher (significantly). But in terms of access to a teaching hospital, both qualify.

It depends on so many factors, and I’m no expert in pre-med, but it seems to me you want to get costs as close to zero as possible. If you are NMF, there are several lists of auto-full tuition+ scholarships out there.

I would go with a flagship that has a teaching hospital attached, cheapest and best fit/location. Those would be my only priorities. Because if you decide against medicine, you’ll be in the best possible place to regroup and steer in another direction.

Best of luck to you!

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Do you have any evidence that academically struggling in early college is primarily related to not being in the top 25% on ACT/SAT compared to classmates?

Score in isolation without additional information is a poor predictor of success. There is a non-zero correlation, but that correlation typically explains only a small portion of variation in college grades. However, such reviews are looking at absolute score, not saying a particular student would have better/worse outcome if he/she attended a college with a different score range.

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The funny thing about medical school is that most high school “premeds” don’t go. They find passions elsewhere. Also…please don’t go into massive loans to pay for these expensive schools. $100,000 for a bachelors degree is financial suicide, especially if you decide against medicine. Find a reasonable affordable school and get top grades. That will be your best setup for success. Plus, medical school is ridiculously expensive. You don’t want to go in with a mountain of debt from a bachelors degree. All that does is limit your choices. Medical schools look at grades and MCAT scores. If you have those, you’re a good candidate.

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This keeps getting pushed back, but I do think it will finally go into effect in 2024-25.

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@AustenNut, thanks.

@elise123, my D is currently a sophomore at W&L (Johnson scholar) majoring in biochem/minoring in poverty studies (premed). I’m happy to share her experience and answer any questions if you are interested.

She was also hunting merit to preserve her college savings for med school costs. We did not qualify for need-based aid. She applied to the following schools with merit opportunities:

UVA (Jefferson)
UNC (Robertson)
Duke (Robertson)
Davidson (Belk, James B Duke)
W&L (Johnson)
Vandy (Cornelius Vanderbilt) *
Rhodes
Furman
Case western
UChic *
Northwestern
UGA (in state, free tuition)
GATech (in state, free tuition; was a semifinalist for Stamps)

*Vandy & UChic only look at custodial parent household income.

ETA: It’s worth taking a look at the Stamps partner schools. Stamps scholars at any school are an elite cohort with amazing opportunities, resources and connections that will continue to payoff post grad. I know a premed student currently at Elizabethtown as a Stamps scholar and loving her experience.

https://www.stampsscholars.org/our-program/partner-schools/

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Thank you!! Our school lists look very similar. What does she think of W&L? What made her pick that one? Scholarships alone or another reason?

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Hi there! Current Vanderbilt student here! I am not very familiar with the process of medical school admissions, however, I do have some things to say about the financial aid issues you might be struggling with. For what it’s worth, I come from a middle-income background, and received a scholarship at Vanderbilt covering most of my tuition, making it possible for me to attend. I, like you, did not expect to get such a lump-some of money especially given my financial circumstances, however, I realized that this is a common trend amongst many top institutions. These schools have a lot of money to give, and you truly never know how much they will give you. I got into schools that gave me absolutely no financial aid, to schools that gave me almost full rides. It really just depends on the school. So I would say definitely apply to all the schools you want, because number one, you never know who is going to accept you, and number two, you never know how much money you might get!

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I am only talking about pre-meds and only using what I’ve seen from the school where I work. Pre-meds need to get As from the start, so they can’t have “problems” adjusting to college level work due to a poor foundation, too many other attractive time commitments, or other typical freshman issues.

The best results I’ve seen have come from students who go to a school where they’re in the top 25% of other students both with GPA and SAT/ACT. I’ve wondered why this is so and come to the conclusion, based upon what I’ve heard back from students, that when they “fit” in the higher group they don’t feel overwhelmed in class. Colleges teach to the level they have coming in. Bio 101 is not the same class everywhere in depth. Some schools start with deeper content in that class and others save it for later classes, often designed for majors (check the tests for Bio 101 from various schools). Calc is similar in variation.

If a student goes to a deeper level class and “everyone” around them seems to “get it” while they don’t, they seem to internally feel they aren’t as smart as the others. It’s not necessarily true at all, esp if they just had a lower level of learning from their high school, but it’s their perception. A few will work hard to fill in the gaps and undoubtedly succeed, but it’s not the majority I’ve seen. Our school counsels accordingly. (I don’t work in the guidance office, but I’ve heard from students.)

When they start in that “everyone gets it” group, they can do just fine. Their foundation is equivalent to their peers (or better than some of their peers).

I’ve seen students with 1200 SAT scores do well and make it into med school (doing well as doctors too). The college they choose can make all the difference.

In the OP’s case, any college will work. They’ve demonstrated by their GPA and SAT (and more) that they are as competitive as other peers they will encounter as long as they put in the work required.

Getting a high college GPA while also getting all the ECs med schools are looking for is never easy at any college, but when a student mentally feels overwhelmed from the beginning of classes, it’s not helpful.

Conversely, a student with the OP’s stats could easily be bored at some lower level colleges. I’ve seen that too. But to see that they’d be heading to a college where the average ACT is in the low 20s with no Honors college/classes or very many peers with an ACT in the mid 30s. They still do well when they go there and can still get into med school, but the journey is not the same.

My guy’s peer from HS was in that last category having chosen his undergrad because it was free. Quite honestly he regretted it because similar opportunities to “do stuff” (like research) wasn’t there at the same level, nor was the commitment there from many students. He’s still a doctor though. Choosing where he went didn’t stop him from getting accepted to med school. Those overchallenging themselves tend to drop out of the pre-med path, sometimes by the end of freshman first semester.

YMMV

For any other path/major I haven’t seen much correlation between scores and success. Pre-med seems to be different because of the concentration needed on grades from the start.

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