<p>With son #1 I felt a little guilt, or something, about letting go of the colleges that showed him a lot of love. (Although he did end up at the one that showed him the most love. ;) )</p>
<p>This time around I'm much more hardened to the whole thing. Either I've realized how much pure marketing it all is, or I just like the selection of schools a little less...</p>
<p>(Of course, given that this child will probably be the latest kid in the whole world to choose a college this year, I'm quite relieved to be sending in any "decline" card.)</p>
<p>Corranged, I think you would be surprised how much parents value being happy and having fun compared to intensity and challenge for their children. My son is facing an intense/fun choice (comparatively), and by far the majority of adults tell him to go with the more fun option when he asks their opinion (or they just offer it). </p>
<p>It's a different thing if you have a kid who is partying himself into oblivion, but at the end of the day that's a big problem only for some kids. There are lots of kids who could do with a little more fun. (Even at, you know, the place where fun went to die . . . .)</p>
<p>I remember many years ago when I was attending some party with one set of my grandparents. They were the generation most scarred by the Depression; they and all their friends had spent their lives working their butts off with comparatively little to show for it (except for their children's educations and white-collar jobs). I remember watching them dancing, and everyone singing along with "Enjoy Yourself". It dawned on me that they actually cared a lot about fun and spontaneity; they had had comparatively little of it, but it really mattered to them. Years later, Woody Allen put a similar scene into Everyone Says I Love You, except he had dead people singing the song and dancing.</p>
<p>wecandothis--It IS hard, and the kids are running out of time to decide....we may have to FedEX the deposit (or even hand deliver it next Monday!) at the rate the decision-making is going in our house! :) And I agree about playing devil's advocate to help test your son or daughter's resolve--just be careful that you don't make such a good argument that you end up convincing yourself beyond repair of the opposite choice your s/d makes (I'm currently trying to convince myself that I have not done this--ha)!</p>
<p>My son also made that decisison last year..between Cal and UCSB. He chose Cal. If it makes you feel any better, he seems to be having tons of fun!</p>
<p>WCDT, environmental factors might be part of "fit," but they're the least part imo. Matching academic rigor to the student's temperament, ditto classroom dynamics, ditto general attitudes of the student body...these are the biggies. For the social things, I take more of a "threshhold" approach: once you get into the "will be socially happy here" zone, you're fine. I'd never counsel someone to go to a college where they'd be miserable or even merely indifferent to the social gestalt. But--and this is an opinion not shared in all quarters--the primary purpose of college is academic.</p>
<p>I hasten to add that UCSB is intrinsically a very decent school. However, I went there for some really dumb reasons: it was close to home, easy to apply to for the 3-2 engineering program I was in, and I didn't have to fret about being accepted. My own college choice was so totally unexamined that I look back and wince. And in hindsight of three-plus decades, I see that I should have been in a different major at a different college. Oh well, it works out....</p>
<p>wecandothis - thanks for starting this thread! I've been feeling the same way myself about a particular school that my daughter won't be attending. I think it's hard not to be emotionally invested in this entire process. Since this is my first kid I have learned a LOT and hopefully I'll be able to apply some of this to my Jr. Son (yep, I get to start again almost immediately!)</p>
<p>D's choice was what I believe to be the perfect fit. Ironic that it was the first school we visited; maybe it was the one everything had to compare to. Timing and logistics and the fact that she's still a Senior in HS and has obligations prevented her from doing more than one open house campus visit. We opted for School A's open house, and I didn't attend. DH went instead of me since he's never seen it and I did NOT want to be overly influential. She ended up choosing this school. I like to think that the decision was independent of my input. Hubby loved it, too.</p>
<p>Chevda - oh yeah, very similar situation here! School B, which we would find much more affordable, had good merit aid, seemed to be another good fit, etc. I hate to let it go as well. I'm convinced she would thrive in either environment. School B is a bit trickier to get to flightwise from the West Coast, however. And more $$.</p>
<p>She's still pretty apathetic about the whole college thing, being deep in the throes of senioritis and not showing a great deal of enthusiasm about anything except "Planet Earth" on Discovery Channel.</p>
<p>We have two wonderful public universities in our state. I'm much more of the country gal--I love the fields and flowers--away from the hub-bub of the city on a nice, peaceful campus, but my D loves the city--she is energized by the excitement and the diversity and that is where SHE would be happiest, and that is what I want. I went to UC Davis, but what is so great about the UC system is that there are great campuses in the city, on the ocean, in the country--you are so lucky to be living there. Berkeley is a wonderful city for an engaging, questioning, smart young woman--the casual, beach surroundings might be perfect for some students, but not right for her.</p>
<p>For me (I'm seventeen), studying IS fun. Maybe not in the traditional, easy-going way - but it's still fun. I enjoy it. It invigorates, excites, and inspires me. I enjoy socializing and retail therapy and zoning out to music, but none of that is the intense sort of loveliness that comes from moving through non-understanding to understanding. If I had the choices of schools you mentioned your daughter having, I'd choose Berkeley. Not to say it's the right decision for everyone, but just pointing out that it could certainly be the more enjoyable decision for some. Your daughter may have a side to her with which you are not really familiar, and it's possible that the campus that calms you bores her to tears.</p>
<p>I understand the appeal for parents of UCSB -- I attended an admittee event and was impressed by the chancellor and others who spoke, and convinced that they care about the well-being of the students; it is smaller and seems safer. But it is true that UCSB is not as strong academically. And Cal is a wonderful school for students who want to go there. My older son went there (chose it over a Regent's scholarship at another UC) and loved it; found small classes in his major, enjoyed the cultural offerings of the area; he successfully applied to numerous graduate schools in his field. He felt safe and had no experiences that would lead him to feel otherwise, though it is important to be aware of your surroundings at night in Berkeley, as in many urban schools, and to avoid walking alone in areas where there are not others around. Have you visited Berkeley? It is a lovely small city, affluent, with attractive residential areas, wonderful food. It is a fairly sleepy town -- things close up early. And it would be a lot harder to transfer from UCSB to Berkeley -- perhaps impossible -- than the other way around.</p>
<p>JHS, if the student can be happy at the challenging school, which is generally the case, I simply cannot see choosing the "fun" school. The purpose of college is learning. I understand that it's also for social development and growth and whatever else, but sacrificing the learning aspect for the social aspect strikes me as very wrong. Berkeley is not the school where "fun comes to die." It does not have the intensity of Chicago or CalTech or MIT or Hopkins pre-med. It isn't too difficult to have fun at any of those places, so I am sure that it's possible to have fun at Berkeley for the OP's daughter. It's different if the student does not see himself as being able to be happy at the tougher school. That is rarely the case. Most teenagers can be happy in different circumstances, even one that involves more studying and less surfing. In high school, I was known as quite laid back academically--a slacker, really, since I would do what I felt like doing instead of studying or doing my work. I certainly study more in college, but my overall disposition and attitude is the same. Somehow, without changing my attitude toward academics, I went off to an intense college and no longer stick out. Since my high school, though tough, was not impossible, I have to take that to mean that my attitude isn't all that unusual here. If the Chicago students I know make time for fun, I am sure that Berkeley students can make time for it. In the end, students can have fun anywhere if they want to, but they cannot likely replicate a superior academic experience. The choice seems easy.</p>
<p>I am feeling sad about my daughter saying no to some of the schools. There were several that were similar and seemed to suit her personality (small, friendly,-- "ridiculously friendly" as she puts it), and of those, she has picked one--Wooster. I feel sad about the wonderful schools she is turning down, that showed an interest in her, but you know what? She doesn't. She is concentrating on what she has picked, not on what she did not choose. She has made her decision and seems content. Good for her.</p>
<p>Corranged, I wasn't arguing the merits of this decision with you, just calling you on your tsk-tsking about parents undermining their children's quest for intensity. </p>
<p>Also, I have seen Berkeley described (here) as that intense, although I've never sensed that hanging around there.</p>
<p>And . . . given the quality of your writing and your thought, I have to giggle a bit at the notion of laid back, slacker corranged in high school. I'm sure you didn't have to work hard if you didn't want to, and I understand the relationship of that to slackerdom. But you're using the vocabulary in a slightly ironic way.</p>
<p>I was looking forward to the theater in Toronto, lobster in Maine, skiing in Vermont, football games in Michigan (oops, I forgot, S already goes there), using my limited french in Montreal, sigh............oh yeah - its my kid going somewhere not me, right?</p>
<p>mstee- Wooster is an absolutely beautiful school!I grew up on the west coast, lived for many years on the east coast, and last year we moved to Ohio. My neighbor just graduated from there and all the people I know who have gone there and fallen in love with it. It was in the original "Colleges that change lives" and kids from all over the country go there--it is a very special place! congratulations to your daughter!</p>
<p>I can relate. When I visited schools over spring break with my daughter, I kept imagining myself in town and on campus, rather than her. I caught myself when thinking it but it was funny how I thought about wanting to be able to come back to a certain coffee shop or restaurant or how nice taking walks on a certain campus would be. I think it's different when it comes to finances though. That is something that kids should factor in and sometimes parents have to draw that line and not think the only attitude is "I'll do what it takes, no matter what it costs."</p>
<p>My son turned down U. of Wisconsin-Madison last year, and probably hasn't looked back. He is happy where he is, but I still occasionally feel a twinge. . . Everyone seems to enjoy that school so much, and I know he would have loved being a Badger!</p>
<p>I was very impressed with Wooster when we visited, but I have been wondering in the back of my mind, pessimist that I am, if there was something, some big flaw or something that I was overlooking, because I keep thinking, how can a school that I knew nothing about previously be that good? Am I missing something?</p>
<p>I was really sad to lose some of the schools my son tossed aside. However, since he is applying to transfer, I might get another shot. I agreed with his choice, which unfortunately hasn't worked out for him.</p>