<p>My DS has completed most of his required courses: Bio I, Cell Bio, Honor Chem, Orgo I, Orgo II, Physics I, Physics II and English writing. He plans to take biochem I and Biochem II, maths and p-chem I and II (which are required by his major). His science GPA as of today seems to be OK (3.8-ish). Does he need more biology courses? He is mostly interested in applying to medical schools in Texas. Thanks.</p>
<p>I don't think so; it's rather a mixture of bio and chem, as the name suggests. But it's surely included in one's BCPM GPA.
Btw it's interesting to see that you signed up Feb 2006 and your first post is today. :)</p>
<p>I have been a lurker for quite some time. Thanks to all the great posts here, I actually picked up a lot of useful information from CC over the years even though I did not actively participate in the discussion.</p>
<p>from the AMCAS help section:</p>
<p>Chemistry (CHEM) - BCPM</p>
<p>· Biochemistry</p>
<p>· Chemistry</p>
<p>· Physical Chemistry</p>
<p>· Thermodynamics</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply.</p>
<p>I found the following info from the site:
UT</a> System-TMDSAS Homepage</p>
<p>For some reason, DS is not particularly fond of any biology courses, even though he has been doing fine for his two biology courses so far. He is therefore reluctant to take more biology courses. He has no problem with taking more science courses in the biochemistry, chemistry or math departments. He even wonders whether he should apply to OOS medical schools only (a stupid move), if the Texas medical schools really require so many biology courses.</p>
<p>Quote:</p>
<p>BIOLOGY</p>
<p>14 semester hours (12 semester hours of lecture & 2 semester hours of formal lab) or 21 quarter hours (18 quarter lecture hours & 3 quarter lab hours) of Biology are required. The coursework must be applicable toward a science degree.</p>
<p>Includes all Biology courses applied toward Baccalaureate degree in traditional science fields, such as General Biology, Zoology, Botany, Microbiology, Molecular Biology, Genetics, Ecology, Immunology, Parasitology, Ornithology, Anatomy & Physiology, Entomology, Pathophysiology, Marine Biology and Herpetology.</p>
<p>Biochemistry will be accepted towards satisfying the 14 hour Biology requirement.</p>
<p>Texas Tech University HSC will only accept biochemistry if it is taught in the Biology department.</p>
<p>For UT School of Medicine at San Antonio, 3 of the 14 hours of required Biology coursework MUST BE Biochemistry (taught in either a biology or chemistry department).</p>
<p>If he doesn't like bio courses enough to take more than 2, he's going to be in for a rude awakening when he gets to med school lol</p>
<p>I personally think a competitive applicant should have 4 semesters of bio under his belt (with at least 2 upper div bio courses). Now, your question is whether biochem will count towards that. For some schools, it will. For others, it won't. I'd take an extra two bio courses just to be safe.</p>
<p>What you said is exactly what the premed adviser at his school suggested right before the end of this semester. The premed adviser asked him to take genetic and another upper-level biology course in his junior year. (BTW, his school is a quite competitive one in the north east and their premed advising is rumored to be pretty good.) I think his experience with the big intro course in biology is not particular pleasant for him, even though he got a precious A in the end. (I think he received only one B+ in a half-a-credit lab course during his first two years in college.)</p>
<p>I read many of your posts (as well as several others: BDM, BRM, and so on) and I really appreciate that you unselfishly share your precious experiences with younger generations of premeds.</p>
<p>The only bio course I took in college was Principles of Bio I and II. I did not take anything higher-level than that - not even biochemistry. Despite that, I've done just fine in medical school.</p>
<p>The concern isn't the lack of biology courses per se; the concern is that if he really hates them enough that he's going to restrict his application pool, he's in for a nasty adjustment.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The only bio course I took in college was Principles of Bio I and II. I did not take anything higher-level than that - not even biochemistry. Despite that, I've done just fine in medical school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't think a bunch of bio courses is necessary for success in med school but I do think most med schools recommend (and some require) upper level bio courses for the purpose of admissions.</p>
<p>Texas state med schools all require 4 courses in Bio and Biochem from the bio department should do the trick at all of them.</p>
<p>A tricky part is "biochem from the BIOLOGY department". It is somewhat odd that in DS's college, there are two kinds of biochem courses. A shorten/accelerated one-semester one is from the biology department. A two-semester one is from the biochemistry department (more correctly speaking, the molecular biophysics and biochemistry department, MB&B.) It is the two-semester one that DS is interested in, because that two-semester course is required for this MB&B major.</p>
<p>Somehow I personally think the biochem department is closer to the biology department, considering the fact that more professors are shared between the biology department and the biochemistry (MB&B) department, than between the chemistry department and the biochemistry department. The only overlapped course between the chemistry and the biochem departments seems to be dreadful p-chem (from what I learned from CC ;-)). But what would I (an old-time engineer) know?!</p>
<p>depends on the school, at my school biochem 1 and 2 are in the chemistry department and are considered "CHEM" classes.</p>
<p>at my state school, biochem is under the bio department and has "BIO" in front of it in the class name. so on your AMCAS, you just label it what your school labels it.</p>
<p>My school labels it as biochemistry, which is neither a pure bio course nor a pure chem course. This is because in addition to a biology department and a chemistry department, we also have a biochemistry department. If the biochemistry course is listed under the biology or the chemistry, there is then no ambiguity. But when this course is listed under the biochemistry department, it is really not easy to tell whether it is a biology course or a chemistry course.</p>
<p>Another confusion is that, if the biochemistry is considered as a chemistry course, it is neither a general/inorganic chemistry course nor an organic chemistry. If a student takes a one-semester accelerated, slightly more advanced, general chemistry only (this happens to many students who have had a AP chemistry credit under his belt), he may not have enough general/inorganic chemistry unless he takes an upper-level chemistry course with a title which does not have a "bio" or "orgo" prefix on it, e.g., p-chem or the next level of inorganic chemistry.</p>
<p>It is so confusing!</p>
<p>A course in a Biochemistry department will be considered by AMCAS to be chemistry. Not sure what TMDSAS would do with it.</p>
<p>BDM: Thanks for the clarification.</p>
<p>After reading your post, I think I now understand why the pre-med advisor at DS's school said that the biochemistry (including its lab) can be used as one semester of general chemistry. He is talking about AMCAS schools.</p>
<p>My understanding about TMDSAS as of today: In general, biochemistry is considered as biology. An exception is that Texas Tech will only accept biochemistry if it is taught in the Biology department. (It does not say explicitly whether biochemistry is accepted as general/inorganic chemistry if it is NOT in the Biology department. To be safe, in the case of Tecas Tech, it should be considered as a BCPM course that can not be used to fulfill any pre-req.)</p>
<p>I located the following info from the TMDSAS site:</p>
<p>Texas State Medical Schools in general:</p>
<p>Biochemistry will be accepted towards satisfying the 14 hour Biology requirement. </p>
<p>UT School of Medicine at San Antonio:</p>
<p>This requirement may be used to fulfill the Biology requirement of 14 hours.
The course may be taught in the Biology, Biochemistry or Chemistry department.
Cannot be an introductory course. </p>
<p>For UT School of Medicine at San Antonio, 3 of the 14 hours of required Biology coursework MUST BE Biochemistry (taught in either a biology or chemistry department). </p>
<p>Texas Tech University HSC will only accept biochemistry if it is taught in the Biology department. </p>
<p>Regarding the chemistry requirement other than orgo:</p>
<p>Inorganic courses include General Chemistry, Physical Chemistry and Quantitative Analysis.</p>
<p>The above statement seems to imply that Biochemistry can not be used as a general/inorganic chemistry for a TMDSAS school.</p>
<p>The rule is very complicated indeed. It appears to me that, to meet the requirements which may be different from school to school, it is better to take standard introductory courses with very common course titles from the biology, chemistry or math departments. Do not try to be creative in course selections, for example, to take courses from the engineering, statistics or interdiscipline departments. This seems to be especially true for non-biology majors, who often can not afford to take many biology courses due to his major requirements.</p>
<p>
[quote]
it is better to take standard introductory courses with very common course titles from the biology, chemistry or math departments. Do not try to be creative in course selections
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, this is why we urge students against using AP Credit in general. Using upper-levels to fill quotients can be tricky. You can always get around it -- I specifically asked Vanderbilt to consider me even though I was a semester short of their GenChem requirement, and they agreed (before waitlisting me) -- but it's safer not to have to.</p>
<p>We wish we had learned this from a wiseman like you two years ago.</p>
<p>On another subject, suppose that a student has taken the following courses already:</p>
<p>Intro Bio, Cell Bio, Accelerated Chem, Orgo I, Orgo II, Physics I, Physics II. (each of these courses is a one-semester course, taken in his college.)</p>
<p>Do you think he is ready for preparing for MCAT or he should wait until he finishes more pre-med courses (genetics, etc.)?</p>
<p>Theoretically, he's all set for the MCAT. A little genetics and physiology would both be helpful, but if he's going to take a prep course he should be okay. There's plenty of genetics covered in intro bio, too.</p>