<p>…and what Undergraduate school they attended (if they remember).</p>
<p>“Is compromising prestige for less debt smart for a premed?”</p>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p>And $100k in undergrad debt is insane, even for HYP. I know people do it, but IMHO they should not.</p>
<p>I think there are different “levels” of doctors, as there is with just about every career. There is a difference between a general practice doctor with fairly regular office hours (that comes after many, many years of school and residency) and a “top” doc at a research hospital who is on the cutting edge of his or her field. I think if you have the ability to be a “top doc”, you will be that no matter where you go to undergrad. However, a mediocre doc (ok, all doctors are very intelligent, we are talking about the cr</p>
<p>This is a FAQ on the PreMed Topics subforum, I suggest you go over there and read some of the sticky threads or Search for relevant threads. Short answer: save your money.</p>
<p>"Trying to study when your roomies and hallmates are playing broom hockey or drinking/partying mid-week can be difficult. "</p>
<p>-Not accurate picture at all. Top kids usually stick together. My D’s roomeate was also valedictorian just like my D. However, she was not a pre-med. In fact, most floor in D’s dorm were valedictorians. And upperclassmen move to rented places anyway. I am talking about state school here, however, I am not talking about boarding kindergarden.</p>
<p>Collegeshopping is exactly right. I have had serious medical problems and have gone to some of the most prestigious doctors in a major city on the west coast. The only criteria I look at is where they went to medical school and that only to make sure that it was in the United States or country with equivalent medical training. I have never even thought to inquire where they went to Undergrad.</p>
<p>I don’t want to get into an issue that is more fitted for the politics forum, but I don’t think that we can assume that in the future doctors will be as well paid as they are now, given the push for a one-payer medical system, Medicare cuts, etc. etc. </p>
<p>A person has many more options as to what to do in life if he isn’t burdened by having to pay off a huge debt.</p>
<p>^^^ "Top kids usually stick together. "</p>
<p>You are right, MiamiDAP, but I think my S might have been led astray if he hadn’t been forced to swim as hard as he could to stay above water, AND he saw too much partying going on around him at the same time. Heck, I think the same thing would have happened to me. :)</p>
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<p>That wasn’t the question asked by the OP, which is whether it makes a difference to attend a prestigious undergrad to be accepted into a top ~20 med school – not any allopathic med school – and and answer is ‘Yes’, it does make a marginal difference for acceptance into the top echelon of the med school food chain.</p>
<p>Whether one needs to aspire to a top 20 med school is a different question entirely bcos unlike Law Schools…</p>
<p>where did mehmet oz do his undergrad?</p>
<p>Dr Oz (via wikipedia)</p>
<p>In 1982 he received his undergraduate degree from Harvard University. In 1986, he obtained a joint MD and MBA degree from the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine and The Wharton School.</p>
<p>“I do agree with mini, but with one caveat. It can be hard for a young adult to go against the grain. Trying to study when your roomies and hallmates are playing broom hockey or drinking/partying mid-week can be difficult. Being exiled to the library all the time is a PIA. The point is that one just might do better in a more academic/studious social environment.”</p>
<p>Another argument for the second tier public. If he can get into a prestige private, he;ll be in the honors college, often in honors dorms, and honors classes, and honors hangouts. Whereas at prestige privates, he’ll be mixed in with privileged drunken hockey players (that’s what happened to me at #1 LAC.)</p>
<p>I don’t think where a doctor went for his undergrad or even his med school is all that important either, but I would be impressed if I saw a Harvard diploma on his wall. I also think that there’s a good chance that the friend that recommended that doctor to me in the first place was impressed by the Harvard degree.
More importantly, I think going to a prestigious college might help you gain access to a prestigious med school, and a prestigious med school might help you gain access to a prestigious hospital or a coveted area of specialty training.</p>
<p>Between my wife and myself we go to a lot of doctors. I’ve got to admit I have no idea where any of them went to school. They have diplomas hanging up, but I don’t think I’ve ever looked at one. But I’m sure some people do.</p>
<p>I belong to an HMO so just basically go where they send me. Except for a couple docs I grew up with that I specifically asked for. So far, so good.</p>
<p>*I guess my question is has anyone here ever chosen a doctor by calling his/her office and asking what school they attended?
…and what Undergraduate school they attended (if they remember). *</p>
<p>It is a bit disappointing to see general consensus on this thread that college is only a means to get into medical school and offers no value in its own right. Rarely a patient will make note of my undergraduate or medical school’s prestige but even if they never did, I know I got an incredible education surrounded by incredible peers who taught me outside the classroom. Yes, I spend most of my day practicing medicine but I like to think I am broadly educated and would not have given up even a year at my undergraduate institution to save money elsewhere. I turned down the most prestigious 6 year med program (Northwestern) to attend a four year college and I routinely recommend this to others even though you have a huge financial difference working for 1-2 years as a doctor and not as a tuition paying student. </p>
<p>Without doubt there are excellent state flagship institutions which will give a good foundation for medical school. Without doubt there are second tier schools that will buy a HYP quality candidate with a merit scholarship. At the end of the day, those loans will be paid off if incured to attend a dream undergraduate institution. One has decades to work in their profession but those four incredible and life changing undergraduate years cannot be replaced.</p>
<p>agree with mini, but with a caveat (again):</p>
<p>“Another argument for the second tier public. If he can get into a prestige private, he;ll be in the honors college, often in honors dorms, and honors classes, and honors hangouts.”</p>
<p>IFF the college offers an honors program, honors dorms and honors hangouts…obviously, not all do, particularly honors dorms. Otherwise, s/he might be mixed in with “drunken [fill-in-the sport] players”…which was my point.</p>
<p>How about starting with the odds of an 18 year old still wanting to attend medical school when he is 22 AND having a really high GPA after 4 years. Do you want to place a 100,000 bet on that?</p>
<p>*I don’t think where a doctor went for his undergrad or even his med school is all that important either, but I would be impressed if I saw a Harvard diploma on his wall. *</p>
<p>When I go to a new doctor, I do glance at their diplomas on the wall, but I rarely ever see the undergrad diploma up there…usually just the med school and residency and so forth.</p>
<p>*More importantly, I think going to a prestigious college might help you gain access to a prestigious med school, and a prestigious med school might help you gain access to a prestigious hospital or a coveted area of specialty training. *</p>
<p>This “might help you” is not enough to gamble that much extra debt for himself and extra cost to his family. Imagine being in med school saddled with undergrad debt and taking on med school debt, while many of your classmates came from state schools with little to no debt. </p>
<p>I’ve told this story before…</p>
<p>My son’s orthopedic surgeon (he’s about 35 years old) went to a low level public in Florida. He went to Duke med school and did his specialty at the Mayo Clinic.</p>
<p>NO ONE cares where he went to undergrad. We only know because we discussed this exact situation with him and he told use where he went to undergrad.</p>
<p>***“Another argument for the second tier public. If he can get into a prestige private, he;ll be in the honors college, often in honors dorms, and honors classes, and honors hangouts.”</p>
<p>IFF the college offers an honors program, honors dorms and honors hangouts…obviously, not all do, particularly honors dorms. Otherwise, s/he might be mixed in with “drunken [fill-in-the sport] players”…which was my point. ***</p>
<p>It’s not that hard to find a mid-tier school with an honors program and honors housing. I can think of 15 off the top of my head.</p>
<p>BTW…didn’t you know that there can be drunken morons at top schools as well? (and…I think at big sports schools, the athletes are often housed in specific areas.)</p>
<p>This isn’t rocket science, folks. Look at whatever med schools you’re aiming for and the profile of students admitted to them.</p>
<p>*The enormous extra debt will have a far more negative impact on your brother’s future than the “bitter pill” of a slightly less name-brand education. *</p>
<p>Very true…</p>
<p>*those loans will be paid off if incured to attend a dream undergraduate institution. *</p>
<p>Yalegrad went to Yale when the cost was no where near what it is today (comparing real dollars). His child is likely having his tuition paid by Dr. Dad.</p>
<p>For those who can go that option without big debt, then great! 
However, to think that newish doctors can afford $300k in debt (undergrad and med school combined) is a bit ridiculous. </p>
<p>Loan Calculator</p>
<pre><code>Loan Balance: $300,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $300,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 8.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Monthly Loan Payment: $3,767.88
Number of Payments: 120
Cumulative Payments: $452,145.14
Total Interest Paid: $152,145.14
</code></pre>
<p>Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $3,767.88 plus a final payment of $3,767.42.</p>
<p>**It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $452,145.60 to be able to afford to repay this loan. **</p>
<p>I have some newish doctors in my family. They aren’t making that much, and they’ve had huge start up costs with their practices.</p>
<p>BTW…the “dream” is not the school…the DREAM is the profession.</p>