<p>Hi, everyone, being that this is the parents forum I wanted to inquire what your opinions are about going to an expensive private school vs going to a cheaper state college for undergrad for a student aiming to go to medical school. My younger brother's EFC calculation comes out to be 48K per year, which makes most out of state private colleges completely unaffordable, leaving him only the family friendly option of going to our in-state college SUNY Binghamton or attending cheaper out-of-state or international colleges like the University of Washington, University of Wisconsin Madison, Georgia Tech, McGill university, etc. </p>
<p>Basically it boils down to this:
Is it worth attending Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, or Northwestern (his top choices) at the expense of accruing more than 110K in personal debt, not to mention the 100K expense from the family, or is it better to swallow the bitter pill of college admissions and attend an honors program at a state college like UW Madison, Georgia Tech, or McGill University while taking a heavy courseload to make the most of lax credit standards at public universities, graduating early and hopefully going on to a top medical school? The latter option would leave him a personal debt of around 24-40K, which is something we could probably handle. The main concern remains is that if he chooses not to go to high ranked schools like Northwestern or Cornell in favor of a public like UW Madison, will his prospective admissions to say a top 10 or top 20 medical school be jeopardized? </p>
<p>100K of debt plus med school debt would be too much debt for me. In addition, your brother will pay out of state tuition for UW Madison, and that would be about the same as a private school with a COA of about $37,000. Fortunately, your brother has some nice options. SUNY Genoseo is an honors LAC with a very nice Biology department with a high med school acceptance rate. If your brother can get into Cornell, he will pay an instate rate as well. SUNY Binghamton is a good school, and if your brother did well, he would have as good of a chance to get into med school from Binghamton as from other more pricey schools. The real challenge is that he does exceptionally well no matter where he goes to undergrad. Well, that is my two cents.</p>
<p>My husband had to pay for his own college and med school. He went to UW-Madison for undergrad and med school. He then did his residency in Ophthalmology at UCLA. That UW degree has not held him back in any way and he absolutely loved the 8 years he spent there. He was $30,000 in debt after residency.</p>
<p>Yes, is my answer. FWI I believe that highly selective schools can provide a somewhat better education than other solid/very-good schools … and I would pay a premium for this difference (and we are for our kids). However, that said, I do not think anyone should go into serious debt to go to a better school … I do not recommend undergrads taking out more than $20k-$25k in loans … and if expensive grad school is on the horizon I think avoiding debt is even more important. I’ve now toured about 50 colleges in the northeast/mid-atlantic and I have been surprised and pleased how I keep responding to schools by saying … this place is nice; I can imagine students for which this is a good fit loving their time here and getting a fine education.</p>
<p>So the punchline … don’t go into serious debt for an undergrad degree!</p>
<p>First of all, who is going to loan your brother 100k for undergrad?
Are yoru parents comfortable paying or can they meek their 48k EFC? If yes, then the difference between the cost of CMU (without merit money) and what your family will pay as near full freight payers is a small amount of $ which your bother can take either unsubsidized stafford loans or work and save.</p>
<p>Now that we have discussed that part of the dilemna, at the end of the day it is not about what a random bunch of strangers think. If this is going to affect you and your educational choices in the future, then you and your parents need to sit down and have a realistic conversation about how much they are willing to pay/borrow for undergrad.
When all is said and done, your brother is goign to attend where his grades and his money can take him. If he is a high stats did, then he needs to consider places where he stands a good chance of getting merit aid.</p>
<p>It seems that a financially feasible option for your family is SUNY. If your parents can swing this, he will graduate essentially debt free which is big considering that med school will easily be around another 250k by the time he is ready to attend.</p>
<p>When my daughter was applying to schools, she was given a full scholarship at Trinity College, a very good LAC. She met many pre-med students who were accepted to Ivies and other top schools. They chose Trinity because of the scholarship, AND also because the school had a very good track record of helping students getting into medical schools. Some students said that in case if they should change their mind, Trinity also offered a very good education and they could get into good graduate school or job upon graduation. Your brother should take all of that into consideration when he is considering which school to attend.</p>
<p>I agree with other posters - he needs to keep his UG debt as low as possible if he wants to attend medical school someday, and 200K is too much.</p>
<p>Only on CC would anyone remark that going to UW-Madison was swallowing a “bitter pill.” Ditto for Georgia Tech and McGill. Sorry, that’s way, way off from reality. From any of those places, your brother could go anywhere he wants to go, if he does well. The same is true of SUNY Binghamton, although it is not in the same research league as UW-Madison.</p>
Yes, this is an excellent option for a NY student as long as he/she attends one of Cornell’s contract colleges (ALS, Human Ecology, or ILR). At $23K/year for tuition, it’s more expensive than Binghamton, but it’s almost exactly the same as OOS tuition at UW-M and less than at Georgia Tech (though GT does award in-state tuition waivers to some OOS students, I believe). Some people may try to tell you that a Cornell degree is “less prestigious” if it’s from one of the contract colleges, but they’re wrong. Admission to any of Cornell’s colleges is quite competitive; Binghamton is becoming more so all the time. Your brother should have some affordable safeties on his list, as well.</p>
<p>I suggest that prestige is rarely worth a big debt load. Your brother should think long and hard about how he’ll repay med school loans, let alone potential undergrad debt. Compensation is changing for doctors, and I wouldn’t count on a large salary, particularly early on (specialty fellowships mean long hours and not-impressive pay).</p>
<p>Just to play devil’s advocate, my top 3 medical school was heavily filled with ivy graduates so I think it did make a difference with that particular school back then. It is hard to predict the future of medicine but it is safe to assume that it will always be well paid. If this question was about dropping down a notch in selectivity to avoid debt as a social worker, I would say strongly consider it. Since the debt loads you are considering are less than a year’s gross income for a physician (and much less for some specialties), I would argue to be less concerned about the debt. When your aggregate career earnings over the time you repay loans is many millions of dollars, it won’t matter that you took on some debt. The average educational indebtedness for medical school graduates is currently $156,000 and I don’t see that as limiting the attractiveness of that career option or making it easier to get into medical school. You only have one chance to choose your college and have that experience. I wouldn’t compromise that to have a little extra in your brokerage account someday when you can pay off your loans and still be a top earner/“wealthy” by most standards.</p>
<p>Start with basic fact: Inability to pay = unaffordable.
Then examine how much debt you can and want to incur in order to buy that which you cannot afford.</p>
<p>"Is compromising prestige for less debt smart for a premed? "</p>
<p>-The MOST prestigious for pre-med is GPA=4.0 and very high MCAT score. The name of your UG while you are achieving these is the last criteria in Med. School adcom decision making. There are other more important considerations, like medically related EC’s, social personality, being overal rounded person with various interests…etc. My opinion (yes, this is just an opinion) is based on my D’s experience, who has been accepted to several Medical Schools. </p>
<p>We did not have to pay her UG tuition, it was covered by Merit scholarships along with good portion of her R&B at college. She had very many awesome experiences at her state college and was having way more opportunities that we have ever hoped so, including the best job on campus, trip abroad of her wildest dream, Med. Research internship, trip to National sorority convention and many more that has helped her develop her leadership skills and pursue various interests outside of pre-med (like music minor, for one example). As a last positive experience, her school was visited by Dalai Lama, very unforgettable event that broaden her horizon. I do not think she has missed anything.</p>
<p>My younger son faced this question, somewhat. He could have either gone to a prestigious U with us paying for most and him maybe taking on some debt (Staffords)…OR…go to our flagship on a big merit scholarship and have NO DEBT and we would help him with med school costs.</p>
<p>He’s a junior at our flagship. He is a Chemical Engineering major with Biology minor. He will likely graduate with a 4.0. Doing fabulously, studying hard (classes aren’t easy), and will surely get a high MCAT (projected from having high SAT/ACT scores - there is a correlation)</p>
<p>**
Why do you have to have ANY debt as an undergrad? **If you have the stats for an elite school, then you likely have the stats for big merit at a flagship somewhere.</p>
<p>Short, succinct, and good advice from 3togo. The terms “serious” and “better school” are squishy. But in this case, $100K debt plus med school loans to come (which are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars) are easily seen as serious and the alternative schools seem pretty good.</p>
<p>I just went to an info session at SUNY Binghamton where we were told that 12% of their graduates go to medical school. From another perspective, I’ve been a nurse practitioner for 25 years and know dozens of successful and excellent doctors (both professionally and personally) who went to state schools. The enormous extra debt will have a far more negative impact on your brother’s future than the “bitter pill” of a slightly less name-brand education.</p>
<p>If he is a star student pre-med at a second tier public, he is likely to get a BETTER education than if he is a middling student at a top private. That’s independent of costs. It’s because he will get the best internships and research opportunities, more attention from the faculty, better recommendations. He is likely to have a higher GPA. The result is that he is more likely to get into med school as well.</p>
<p>Prestige might also mean higher “weed-out” rates among would-be pre-meds. I saw that firsthand at #1 LAC.</p>
<p>Yes, the top 10 med schools are prestige-conscious, so attending a tippy top undergrad is a plus factor. But if you can’t attend HYPS (grade-inflated Brown), it ain’t worth the debt.</p>
<p>GaTech and Wisconsin are great schools, and have excellent pedigrees; no med school will look down on their grads. (It’s not like they are Podunk State in Backwater.) With an engineering-focused student body, don’t think that the science courses at GaTech will be much easier than some of those privates on your list.</p>
<p>$100k debt is way too much.</p>
<p>I do agree with mini, but with one caveat. It can be hard for a young adult to go against the grain. Trying to study when your roomies and hallmates are playing broom hockey or drinking/partying mid-week can be difficult. Being exiled to the library all the time is a PIA. The point is that one just might do better in a more academic/studious social environment.</p>
<p>Well, I like post #10 by YaleGrandDad, but I can see mom2collegekids’ point. I guess my conclusion would be that undergrad debt might be worth it for me if I were admitted to HYP or another truly dream school.</p>