Is Cornell Secretly the Best Ivy?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
201

<p>@Monydad, post #213:
Thanks for your concise appraisal of the 2011 NRC survey, as well as your informative links on this topic.</p>

<p>Here is an abstract of Brian Pogue’s assessment regarding the recent NRC survey. Dr. Pogue is the Dean of Graduate Studies at Dartmouth:

</p>

<p>It is unfortunate that the NRC researchers didn’t find methods of data gathering that was less falsifiable. It is also too bad that they decided to not give reputational reports, from established experts in the various fields, more weight as a factor in their evaluation(s).</p>

<p>As with any rankings methodology, it is best to take the recent NRC survey with some hefty grains of salt.</p>

202

<p>okay.
Thanks for sharing your narrow minded views, 2coll.</p>

203

<p>@engineerbill</p>

<p>Cornell as required by Ivy code of conduct does not give an merit scholarship. However, Cornell Presidential Research Scholar program was created by private donation by an alum, Chuck Feeney who over 30 years has donated around $700 million to the university with one stipulation that his name should not be on any buildings, monuments or programs. It is therefore not considered as merit scholarship. Also, acceptance requires you to conduct original research as an undergrad. The good thing for a freshman is the s/he can pick the faculty s/he wants to work with after interviewing many. So, the student is in control and is not begging for a job. S/he comes prefunded. Here is the link should you want to learn more, [Cornell</a> University Cornell Presidential Research Scholars](<a href=“Cornell Commitment | Student & Campus Life | Cornell University”>Cornell Commitment | Student & Campus Life | Cornell University)</p>

<p>For freshman applicants there is no separate application to be awarded. Around mid March you get an email followed by a letter stating that you have been selected as a Cornell Presidential Research Scholar. This actually precedes your acceptance letter.
The honor is given to about 1% of the incoming freshmen of all disciplines. Interesting thing is you do not have to do research in the field you are majoring in, so for example an English major can work on an Engineering research project if s/he has sufficient inclination and interest.</p>

<p>Sophomores can also apply and are admitted based on available spots and recommendations. Cornell has two other similar programs focussing on community service, and leadership. The trio together is called Cornell Commitment. [Cornell</a> University The Cornell Commitment](<a href=“Cornell Commitment | Student & Campus Life | Cornell University”>Cornell Commitment | Student & Campus Life | Cornell University)</p>

204

<p>@chelsearox,</p>

<p>Although I place little credence on rankings, I decided to humor you and asked my employee who is a recent college grad to find out different college ranking agencies and their current rankings. Here is what he found out,</p>

<p>[Times</a> Higher Education World University Rankings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Higher_Education_World_University_Rankings]Times”>Times Higher Education World University Rankings - Wikipedia)
[QS</a> World University Rankings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QS_World_University_Rankings]QS”>QS World University Rankings - Wikipedia)
[Academic</a> Ranking of World Universities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Ranking_of_World_Universities]Academic”>Academic Ranking of World Universities - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>Now if you can identify all the Ivy schools, you will answer your own question and compare Cornell to other Ivy and non-Ivy schools.</p>

205

<p>[Let</a> me google that for you](<a href=“LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You”>LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You)
[Ivy</a> League Schools & Rankings | Good University Ranking Guide](<a href=“http://whichuniversitybest.blogspot.com/2010/03/ivy-league-schools-rankings.html]Ivy”>Ivy League Schools & Rankings | Good University Ranking Guide)
[Ivy</a> League Universities / Schools Ranking | U.S. College Rankings](<a href=“http://www.uscollegeranking.org/ivy-league/ivy-league-universities-schools-ranking.html]Ivy”>http://www.uscollegeranking.org/ivy-league/ivy-league-universities-schools-ranking.html)
<a href=“http://www.uscollegeranking.org/ivy-league/ivy-league-universities-schools-ranking.html[/url]”>http://www.uscollegeranking.org/ivy-league/ivy-league-universities-schools-ranking.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href="http://www..com/ivy_league_compare.html%5B/url%5D">http://www..com/ivy_league_compare.html</a>
“asterisked” out portion is students and review (one word, no spaces, without the and)</p>

<p>Some simple google search results, chelsearox. All based off “ranking of ivy league schools” or “ivy league rankings”</p>

<p><a href=“CollegeOTR.com – College On The Record”>CollegeOTR.com – College On The Record;

<p>Then we have this</p>

206

<p>Don’t feed the Engineerbill and Chelsearox ■■■■■■!</p>

207

<p>^ point taken. This thread is still alive?..</p>

208

<p>okay my bad.
Cornell is awesome!!</p>

209

<p>Nope, Abu Dabhi Madarasa University is #1 especially the goat herding program.</p>

<p>You need to know Cornell has produced 41 Nobel laureates in addition to other major award winners like MacArthur Genius Award, Pulitzer, Rhodes, Fields medal and many others. Its contribution to the benefit of mankind is immense and a thing to be proud of.</p>

<p>The whole country of UAE, Saudi, and other gulf countries combined have never produced a single Nobel prize winner or much original scientific contribution that benefits mankind. Probably never will. Their contributions are of a different kind :wink: .</p>

210

<p>Haha jeeze…a lot of xenophobia in this thread. I guess it’s safe to say Cornell is often ranked ahead of Dartmouth and Brown at least.</p>

211

<p>@engineerbill,</p>

<p>As I prefaced my email saying I place little credence on ranking. My response was to chelsearox who said show me a ranking which shows Cornell ahead of other Ivys. In our situation, among other things for our decision in favor of Cornell is (a) It is the nearest Ivy to where we live. I can drive there and be back home the same night. It became a logistical requirement as we approached decision making. Princeton is about 9 hours drive one way. (b) I have friend who works at Cornell who can act as a local guardian and home made food once in a while. The other reasons I already alluded to. When we made the decision it was based on a matrix of things important to us, not some ranking company.</p>

212

<p>@ engineerbill,</p>

<p>Read post #215. I was responding to that with my ranking post. Also, Dartmouth and Brown does not figure in the rankings in the rankings I posted.</p>

213

<p>Family Fun Magazine University Water Slide Rankings 2009:
1 Stanford University
2 University of Wisconson Madison
3 Cornell University
4 Harvard University
5 William and Mary
5 University of Pennsylvania
7 Dartmouth
8 Ole Miss
9 University of Arizona Tempe
10 Brown University
10 Columbia University
10 Princeton University
13 California Institute of Technology
13 Michigan Technical Institute
13 Bryn Mawr College
13 University of Colorado Boulder
17 Yale University</p>

214

<p>…I’d like to learn goat herding…have you seen the price for organic goat cheese these days? :)</p>

<p>I think one of the unintended, and unfortunate, consequences of these ranking lists is arrogance: my school is better than your school…and, therefore, I’m better than you. I think what’s forgotten is the concept of fit: some schools will be a better academic match for your child than others. I remember, 2coll, your spot-on analysis of Princeton’s, vs. Cornell’s, engineering programs: equally excellent (despite the rankings) but with differing emphases: applied vs. theoretical. It was a great example.</p>

<p>My daughter, early on, expressed her distaste for the gamesmanship inherent in the college application process. She didn’t take a prep course, or study at all, for the SAT’s saying, “If they’re truly measures of aptitude, then they’ll be a good reflection of what I’m capable of, academically, without studying or wasting time on a prep course.” She took all of the standardized tests, cold, during the chaos of the spring sports season (she’s a competitive rower for her school), and earned, predictably, ok/good scores…but nothing impressive (as compared with y’all geniuses popping out 2350 on the SAT’s! :)). They’re adequate for admission to the fine Virginia schools, but probably not enough for any Ivy League…which breaks my heart, since I was hoping she could attend lovely Cornell…but I think it’s unlikely.</p>

<p>She told us about a girl in her class who badly wants to go to Brown, for reasons she can’t really articulate…other than for its perceived lenient admittance and Ivy stature. This girl is a rather dim bulb, but her parents are very rich, and they’ve spent literally thousands of dollars on tutors and educational consultants who promise delivery to the Ivy League. It’s become an industry…and the girl presents fairly well on paper…but I feel sad about it. Even if she is admitted to Brown, this girl won’t be possessed of the raw bravery to disclose her own thoughts and ideas, without the vetting of an approved educational consultant…pity. </p>

<p>I feel bad to have witnessed the slow dismantling of this girl’s educational potential for the possible social benefits of an Ivy League pedigree…and am grateful for my daughter’s refusal to play the game.</p>

215

<p>Here are the current “World University” rankings (x3) from the official sites. This time they are inclusive of all the Ivy League universities:</p>

<p>[url=&lt;a href=“http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2010-2011/north-america.html]Times”&gt;THE World University Rankings: Measure by measure: the US is the best of the best | Times Higher Education (THE)]Times</a> Higher Education World University Rankings – Official Site<a href=“Adjusted%20for%20solely%20North%20American%20universities”>/url</a>

  1. Harvard
  2. Princeton
  3. Yale
  4. Cornell
  5. Columbia
  6. Penn
  7. Brown
  8. Dartmouth</p>

<p>[url=&lt;a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities/articles/2010/09/21/worlds-best-universities-top-400-]QS”&gt;http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities/articles/2010/09/21/worlds-best-universities-top-400-]QS</a> World University Rankings (now part of USN&WR) – Official Site<a href=“Adjusted%20for%20solely%20US%20universities”>/url</a>

  1. Harvard
  2. Yale
  3. Princeton
  4. Columbia
  5. Penn
  6. Cornell
  7. Brown
  8. Dartmouth</p>

<p>[url=&lt;a href=“http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2010.jsp]Academic”&gt;http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2010.jsp]Academic</a> Ranking of World Universities – Official Site<a href=“Includes%20non-North-American%20universities”>/url</a>

  1. Harvard
  2. Princeton
  3. Columbia
  4. Yale
  5. Cornell
  6. Penn
  7. Brown
    151.Dartmouth</p>

<ul>
<li>I have posted this with the recommendation that prospective students view each and every ranking methodology as more-or-less flawed. Their value is limited, especially for the overall “generalist” rankings.</li>
</ul>

216

<p>@engineerbill,</p>

<p>If you read the Original Poster, s/he did not say anything about ranking. S/he was just celebrating the breadth of offerings at Cornell. His definition of “best” was the spectrum of offerings. It was other people who introduced ranking into the discussion. And yes if a school meets all your scholastic and other requirements then reasonable proximity becomes important. To many city life would be a critical factor. In that situation, Columbia would be a perfect choice. To others just overall USNWR rankings would be the only guiding factor. In that case, Harvard would be the best even for engineering even though Harvard did not have a full fledged Engineering school till 2007 and they are in a ramp up mode which got hampered by the financial crisis. FYI, we did visit the campus and meet the engineering dean.</p>

<p>Speaking of ranking which seems to be your primary concern, if you look at Ivy and Engineering I bet Cornell would be top or near top overall with the breadth of offerings and all engineering disciplines being really good. Does USNWR give rankings based on Engineering schools?</p>

217

<p>World ■■■■■ ranking

  1. Engineerbill</p>
218

<p>@ engineerbill,</p>

<p>I just googled. [Best</a> Undergraduate Engineering Programs | Rankings | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate)
Cornell is #8 overall in undergraduate programs with no Ivy above it. Again, I really don’t care but it is interesting.</p>

219

<p>*I feel bad to have witnessed the slow dismantling of this girl’s educational potential for the possible social benefits of an Ivy League pedigree…and am grateful for my daughter’s refusal to play the game. *</p>

<p>There are definitely very bad social reasons why people apply to Ivy League schools, and as I have personally found out, Cornell is no exception. I’m currently in my first year at the school and I totally enjoy the academic diversity and flexibility. The social standing of the school and the subsequent benefits (resources, alumni, etc.) are a nice bonus, but certainly not the main reason I applied. There are other folks like me I’m sure, but not enough I suppose.</p>

<p>As for SAT’s and other standardized testing, that’s another discussion that’s been raging for a very long time. I never scored better than a 2030 in my three SAT attempts, and I never liked the exam, but I did other stuff and I’m happy to be attending Cornell.</p>

220

<p>@engineerbill, post #248:</p>

<p>Yes, for many students, Cornell is the best Ivy, for the many reasons that have been listed throughout this thread. Cornell is particularly best for engineering, lol. Also, for many other disciplines. Also, because of Cornell’s unique depth and breath. Also, because of the fact that a few of Cornell’s colleges emphasize attributes other than more-or-less flawed academic rankings.</p>