<p>@Chelsearox - Perhaps the thread was made up, in part, to deflect sophomoric posts like yours above in post #201. Hahahaa.</p>
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<p>The results aren’t “clear” at all, they are dubious. Princeton lacks two key programs that Cornell has; Princeton is neck-and-neck in one program with Cornell, and they are only slightly ahead in another, and they are way behind in Operations Research. This does not indicate that Cornell is “not even close.” Quite to the contrary.</p>
<p>hey guys</p>
<p>Your discussion is a nice illustration of why my daughter told me, “Even if I get into Cornell, I don’t think I want to go.”…and it has nothing to do with the weather.</p>
<p>She likes snow.</p>
<p>My kid was accepted to both Cornell and Princeton Engineering 2 years back. My background is also engineering although from a state school. I looked into the curricula of both schools. I found Cornell to be more applied in nature while Princeton theoretical. Our personal preference was applied curriculum and the choice was Cornell. On top of that, Cornell provided the Presidential Research Scholarship which augmented the applied curriculum quite a bit with a paid research scholarship from the freshman year itself. It allows the awardee to work in a lab doing individual project that is substantial, meaningful and publishable. To the best of my knowledge Princeton did not provide anything even close.</p>
<p>Personally, I am not much into rankings but I found this on Cornell BME website [BME:</a> News Detail](<a href=“http://www.bme.cornell.edu/news/detail.cfm?id=29419]BME:”>http://www.bme.cornell.edu/news/detail.cfm?id=29419) which I think is pretty good.</p>
<p>cornell shouldn’t even be an Ivy.
Duke or MIT are way better suited.</p>
<p>chelsearox where are you going to attend?</p>
<p>*cornell shouldn’t even be an Ivy.
Duke or MIT are way better suited. *</p>
<p>It’s been in the athletic Ivy League for years, so that’s too bad.</p>
<p>*Your discussion is a nice illustration of why my daughter told me, “Even if I get into Cornell, I don’t think I want to go.”…and it has nothing to do with the weather.</p>
<p>She likes snow. *</p>
<p>At least elaborate instead of leaving vague aversions.</p>
<p>His profile says he is an 17 year old from Dubai accepted to Penn ED. He seems to think he knows more about the American educational system in general and Cornell in particular than top education experts in the country. On one hand it is better to ignore such pimple faced foreigners. On the other, he is irritating. And adds absolutely no value to the conversation. He is probably more suited for Abu Dabhi Madrasa University.</p>
<p>I hope he watches ‘Unwelcome in America’ segment this weekend on CNN before deciding to come over. Or watch Peter King’s hearings on CSPAN.</p>
<p>@ceresma I am talking about chelsearox in the previous post.</p>
<p>yes i understood that</p>
<p>As a digression to this absurd thread, IIRC the 2010 NRC rankings do not give one specific numerical ranking, but only ranges, in two different categories. To the best of my recollection the NRC did not consolidate these two methodologies, and ranges, into any single number, they just left it at two different categories of ranges. </p>
<p>However, the ranges indicated for most of Cornell’s engineering subfields, and a number of the university’s other departments as well, appeared to me to be materially lower than indicated by their evaluation in prior NRC rankings, which were specific single numbers.</p>
<p>In the prior NRC rankings, Cornell was 3rd in Materials Science, 6th in Civ E and Aero, 7th in EE and Mech E. Those are the types of numbers alums expect to see.</p>
<p>I would like to see the engineering college administration, and the other departments with material discrepancies, address the differences in their evaluations in the 2010 NRC rankings, vs. prior rankings. But I haven’t seen that so far.</p>
<p>I think it’s fair to say not everyone was enthralled with the methodology changes and their implementation in the 2010 rankings, e.g.:
[NRC:</a> Nonsensical Ranking Clowns - Technology Review](<a href=“http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/post.aspx?bid=349&bpid=25822]NRC:”>http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/post.aspx?bid=349&bpid=25822)
[Grad</a> School rankings scrutinized | Yale Daily News](<a href=“http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/mar/23/grad-school-rankings-scrutinized/]Grad”>http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/mar/23/grad-school-rankings-scrutinized/)
[Leiter</a> Reports: A Philosophy Blog: More Peculiarities of the NRC Rankings: The More Women and Minorities, the Worse the Program!](<a href=“Leiter Reports: A Philosophy Blog”>Leiter Reports: A Philosophy Blog: More Peculiarities of the NRC Rankings: The More Women and Minorities, the Worse the Program!)
[NRC</a> Rankings Not Even Wrong](<a href=“NRC Rankings | Not Even Wrong”>NRC Rankings | Not Even Wrong)</p>
<p>A revised ranking is going to be released soon by NRC, supposedly:
[NRC</a> Plans to Release Revised Doctoral-Program Rankings Soon - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Plans-to-Release-Revised/126631/]NRC”>http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Plans-to-Release-Revised/126631/)</p>
<p>Whether this revision materially changes the results more in line with what we are accustomed to expect remains to be seen. But if not, people in the community deserve an explanation.</p>
<p>@Monydad, You are absolutely right. NRC rankings are under considerable fire and so are US News rankings. If you peel back the onion, some of factors that go into the ranking algorithm don’t even make sense to me. A university faculty friend of mine indicated during a casual conversation that a lot of wining and dining goes on into these rankings. While some schools excel at this, others are indifferent or do not participate in these rankings. It eventually reflects in these “rankings”. For those who do not participate, only recourse these ranking agencies have is CDS or other public domain data.</p>
<p>wow.
I really didn’t see the need for you to go all personal on me there. Well I’m not gonna sink to your level. Sorry.</p>
<p>As far as me pretending to know more than ‘university experts’, i don’t understand the context behind what that was taken. So whose the university expert, USNR or you, 2coll??
I have the backing of every ranking system in the world to back me up that Cornell is not the best Ivy. In fact its the lowest ranked Ivy in every ranking system I have seen.
If I am wrong, please link me up 
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<p>Also, take it easy man/woman. Its all in good debate.</p>
<p>@chelsearox, Why don’t you stick to BS in Goat Herding at Abu Dabhi Madarasa University? America is a law abiding nation, we don’t need people from despotic countries coming here to pollute the environment. </p>
<p>USNR ranking or other such rankings are just marketing things to sell more publications. It is at best one data point. I would have gladly spent some time explaining American educational system to you, but frankly to someone who does not even seem to know what an Ivy is, it is futile. It is like educating your sheik the value of democracy.</p>
<p>“…wining and dining…”</p>
<p>This characterization generally matches what I’ve heard from university admin friends.</p>
<p>Islander, my daughter feels that the whole college entry anxiety-vortex is fueled more by social competition than intellectual honesty or curiosity; it has become decoupled from educational goals.</p>
<p>@ulcerita</p>
<p>I could not agree more. The rankings surely denigrate the concept of education. However, it is insecure college administrations who are incentivized on enrollment and yield that perpetuate this vicious cycle. It hurts students the most. Many students who solely rely on rankings end up in situations where they perform sub optimally. I wish all the best to your daughter. She is wise to see through this facade at this young age.</p>
<p>Additionally, it hurts schools that refuse to actively participate in this craziness. Since this is a Cornell thread lets take its example. Cornell does not share any data with these ranking agencies. So all they can get is public domain data and CDS. So for all other data points that are not public domain Cornell will get a zero in the algorithm. Additionally, here is the kicker. If you look at the ranking algorithm one of the factors with high weight is location. Now, a higher score is assigned to campuses that are in an urban setting than in a semi-rural setting like Cornell. Well guess what, many people prefer a tranquil learning environment where faculty pretty much live on the outskirts and invite students over for Thanksgiving and other occasions. And Cornell can not do much about its location which has nothing to do with quality of education.</p>
<p>thank you for your kind words, 2coll…and thank you for the interesting links, Moneydad.</p>
<p>Chelsearox, you’re too much. US News rankings are wildly subjective. In fact US News</p>
<p>…additionally, I think many of our kids have their own ideas about which universities seem desirable to attend (…and their rankings have nothing to do with those published by US News & World Report).</p>
<p>For example, my daughter and her friends have shorthand social-life characterizations in mind for many universities which, I think, are both powerful, in influencing their school choice, and inaccurate, when too broadly applied. They’ve dismissed whole, excellent, engineering schools, and won’t apply, because of accepted stereotypes regarding the social life (or lack thereof…): ‘nerd’.</p>
<p>Another example: we live in Virginia (‘the DMV’, as they say…DC metro area). My husband and I have tried hard to bait the UVA-hook, without success, because my daughter and her friends loathe the fake Virginia Gentleman image that, indeed, forms the popular stereotype of that student body. (her quote? “I’m not up for being date-raped by some coke-head laxbro in a Justin Bieber haircut”…haha…way to overgeneralize…my 17-yr-old’s curt characterization of thousands of souls attending a huge prestigious university). </p>
<p>…she may be wise in her discernment, on some topics…but not all:)</p>
<p>I go to Cornell and I absolutely love it We get the “worst ivy” jokes all the time, but it’s so childish and no one really pays attention to those things. Worst ivy (or secretly the best ivy??) or not, it’s still an amazing school!</p>