<p>before you ask stupid questions, research how each ranking is tabulated</p>
<p>you asked the same question on the rice board</p>
<p>Hopefully this thread wont turn into rankings dribble. In my experiance in visiting the school, I would say the school is most definitely not overrated. The classes were at the same quality level at those of princeton and yale, and better than some of the other ivies I looked at.</p>
<p>Shanghai Jiao Tong University, do you know this school? I do, my uncle went there, they are very pro-china and stuff, if you look on there, i would say QingHua and Bei-Da(beijing U) are ranked pretty high on there but they aren't close to as good as they are rank even though admission is harder than any US school.
whitesox is right, research how they are tabulated</p>
<p>US News tries to identify the best US schools to attend for an undergraduate degree. The US News ranking criteria are heavily student-oriented (SAT scores, acceptance rates, graduation rates, alumni donation rates, etc). Dartmouth is generally considered to be a top school by such criteria (and not just by US News). </p>
<p>The two international rankings, in contrast, try to identify the schools that produce the most influential research. They look at criteria like Nobel Prizes won by faculty and alumni, "highly-cited" researchers, articles published in Nature and Science, average citations per faculty member, etc. They include almost no student-related criteria at all (although the THES rankings do consider student-faculty ratios). </p>
<p>Dartmouth is the smallest and most undergraduate-oriented of the Ivies. Compared to most other prestigious universities, it puts more of an emphasis on faculty teaching, and less of an emphasis on faculty research. This is great for undergraduates, and so Dartmouth has a high US News ranking -- but it hurts Dartmouth in rankings based on "research impact".</p>
<p>To make the contrast even starker, look at the Wall Street Journal's recent [url=<a href="http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf%5Dranking%5B/url">http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf]ranking[/url</a>] of "feeder schools". The WSJ tried to identify the undergraduate programs that are most likely to send graduates to top professional schools. The top ten schools in this respect, according to the WSJ, include Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore (as well as Dartmouth). US News also rates these schools highly. Yet according to the international rankings, Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore don't even exist. How's that for a contrast?</p>
<p>So it's possible for a school to be ranked very highly as an undergraduate institution, and yet to be rated much lower (or not at all) as a research institution. At the undergraduate level, the "research impact" rankings are probably of very limited relevance.</p>
<p>"Dartmouth is the smallest and most undergraduate-oriented of the Ivies. Compared to most other prestigious universities, it puts more of an emphasis on faculty teaching, and less of an emphasis on faculty research. This is great for undergraduates, and so Dartmouth has a high US News ranking"</p>
<p>How about Princeton, which is also very small and professors devote much of their time with undergraduate students? Princeton seems to have a more undergraduate focus than Dartmouth, yet it still ranks in the top ten by those two international rankings.</p>
<p>If you go to Europe or Asian countries, not only few people know that Dartmouth is a Ivy League schools, but also most people will not even know the school. However, another small Ivy League school like Princeton is well-known no matter where you go in the world.</p>
<p>I don't seem to understand the point of this thread. You seem to have already made up your mind that you think Dartmouth is overrated. Someone gave you some reasoning, and you retort back with some hubub about international prestiege. </p>
<p>Do you want us to just somehow agree with you and say "Yes, Dartmouth is most definitely overrated!" (Hint: we probably won't!)</p>
<p>
[quote]
How about Princeton, which is also very small and professors devote much of their time with undergraduate students? Princeton seems to have a more undergraduate focus than Dartmouth, yet it still ranks in the top ten by those two international rankings.
[/quote]
Princeton is not much larger than Dartmouth in terms of enrollments, but Princeton has a much stronger emphasis on research. For example, I checked the 2003 NSF statistics for science and engineering PhDs: Princeton granted 258, while Dartmouth only granted only 67. This kind of difference obviously helps Princeton in terms of "research impact". </p>
<p>But I would say that Dartmouth has the stronger reputation when it comes to undergraduate education. Princeton, for example, relies on graduate students and post-docs to teach freshman and sophomore level language courses (I happen to know some of them). This would be unthinkable at a good liberal arts college, and I'll bet Dartmouth doesn't do it either.</p>
<p>I recommend applying to Shanghai Jiao Tong University, QingHua and Bei-Da, or UMass Amherst all of which were rated higher than Dartmouth, Amherst, Williams or Swarthmore--just to be safe...and keep hope alive.</p>
<p>According to the Shanghai rankings, such schools as UC San Francisco, Rockefeller U, and U Texas SW are rated much higher than Dartmouth. Would you therefore conclude that these schools are better places than Dartmouth to attend college? </p>
<p>You probably shouldn't jump to that conclusion, since these schools don't even have undergraduate programs. They are graduate institutes that only offer advanced degrees. </p>
<p>The Shanghai rankings are based solely on "research impact". If that's important to you, then go to a school with a high ranking. But you shouldn't infer that "research impact" has anything to do with the quality of the undergraduate experience. It is possible to have a high "research impact" with little or no undergraduate emphasis (as these graduate institutes demonstrate), and it is possible to have high teaching quality with little or no research emphasis (as liberal arts colleges demonstrate).</p>
<p>"How about Princeton, which is also very small and professors devote much of their time with undergraduate students?" </p>
<p>If you go to Europe or Asian countries, not only few people know that Dartmouth is a Ivy League schools, but also most people will not even know the school. However, another small Ivy League school like Princeton is well-known no matter where you go in the world."</p>
<p>Most ignorant statement I have ever heard. Well, one of them.
Amherst, Williams, Swathmore, and probably Dartmouth are all quite possibly better undergraduate than Princeton. Maybe if you do research other than a foreign list of schools that is based on research, you wouldn't get so much ****. Maybe if you articulated some logic other than "people haven't heard of Dartmouth outside of the US so they must be teh suxxor"</p>
<p>"Princeton seems to have a more undergraduate focus than Dartmouth, yet it still ranks in the top ten by those two international rankings."</p>
<p>O RLY? Have you attended both universities? Have you performed various studies based on graduate school placement or LSAT/GRE/MCAT scores or surveys to groups on both campuses concerning teacher/facaulty availibility or teaching quality. THEN SHUT THE FU CK UP.</p>
<p>lol... I totally think its hilarious that you post a 'Is Dartmouth overrated thread" on the Dartmouth board HopefulDove... umm, most of us don't think that or we'd be on the HYP board or something! I bet if you go over to one of the state school boards you can find some people to agree with you but I really don't think this is the place to find support...</p>
<p>haha, yeah its kinda funny that your posting this here. My guess is that your actually kicking yourself for not applying or if you did apply, you know you dont have that great a chance (or something like that), and your just trying to make youself feel better. If you didnt have some intial interest in the college, why would you even be in this forum. In conclusion, I think this thread was started on the basis of revenge, lashing out at something you ultimately cant have.</p>
<p>Click the "college" button. Scroll all the way down and click on "prestige rankings."</p>
<p>Dartmouth is among the top of the heap at 5th. Also, why would you need an undergrad degree that is so visible in Asia and Europe. Do you plan to be hired there? Within the US, I can tell you that Dartmouth can open doors in terms of high paying jobs. It's 5th ranking here, New England ivy league status, and one of the top business school rankings by various guides all corroborate this fact.</p>
<p>I think people on this board are too defensive. I think it's simply a fact that Princeton has a similar undergraduate focus to Dartmouth and it does have more research going on. But I think it is really, and I mean REALLY, stupid to choose Princeton over Dartmouth (if you're able to get into both) simply because of a few points difference in rankings. For example, I believe that Dartmouth is a more friendly, down-to-earth and intimate environment, whereas Princeton is friendly and intimate without the down-to-earth part. However, Princeton has the advantage/disadvantage over Dartmouth to have eating clubs, which some find to be a wonderful experience. Once you get to the top ivy league schools, differences in rankings and other numerical measures of quality should blur. At that point, choose what environment is best for your education and experience.</p>
<p>1) The international rankings aren't rating undergraduate schools, they are rating the overall University. A school like USF, which doesn't even have an undergraduate school!! is top ten. These rankings are not relevant to undergrads.</p>
<p>2) Dartmouth is an undergraduate college first and foremost. It barely has grad programs. Usnews ranks undergraduate colleges so that is why it is highly ranked on that report. Very few Dartmouth undergrads do graduate work at Dartmouth, they move on to the top research universities for that work. </p>
<p>Dartmouth is one of the best undergraduate schools in the world, the rankings are grad school rankings. Its not rocket science.</p>
<p>My chinese fifth grade student showed me a book she brought from China. She showed me a page in her chinese book, "Top Ten Universities in the US," and Dartmouth is on the list, along with the other nine! Her parents have sent her here to live in America...so she can hopefully one day attend one of these top ten!</p>