In San Jose, CA, that is 54th percentile household income. Not the upper crust, but not “poor”.
But most places have lower income distribution than San Jose, CA.
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Yes, of course. I’m well aware that merit scholarships are discounts. I’m just saying non-need based awards based on academic accomplishments need to exist.
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I think we disagree on what middle class is. Pew defines it as $41,000-$171,000 HOUSEHOLD currently, and I can tell you, the $41,000-$90,000 ones have not had access to the schools and tools you think they do! I define middle class as the 40-110,000 because that is the 30th to 70th percentiles of household income. The middle middle class is not over-represented in merit. The upper-middle class and the upper class i.e. those in the top 20% in particular are over-represented.
*I have no idea why Pew defines middle class as 2/3 median income up to 2x the median income. Seems like it would be done by percentiles and that the Pew definition skews it to richer rather than each side of the median.
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We need to define low income. And middle income. On CC, people refer to the lower-middle class as “low” income, and trust me, it feels that when when you live it. But to AO’s, a family of 4 living at the $40,000-60,000 range is not low income. They are assumed (like EconPop does above) to have access to the same schools, APs, counselors etc. as the ones at the $150,000-170,000 range.
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“Middle class” is an infamously flexible definition. Sometimes on these forums, it extends to the 95th or so percentile income (implied by self described “middle class” people saying that they will not get college financial aid anywhere).
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The colleges know that merit aid is going to skew its population towards the affluent (per my earlier comment). This is by design. It is just cheaper to offer modest discounts to lots of families-- who can afford to cover most of the costs-- than to fully cover the costs for lower income kids who simply cannot afford to attend without an aggressive package. Their money goes further.
Not to put words in EconPop’s mouth- but I don’t think he is referring to exotic schools, tools, advantages. It’s things like taking your kid to story time at the local library. It’s a nice free activity for a three year old. So you can ask “If it’s free, why aren’t low income kids going to the library?” Taking advantage of these free or low cost enrichment programs requires transportation, “social capital” to know what these institutions are and how to find out about these programs, etc.
My town has an annual free bike helmet giveaway. It’s funded by a family whose child died of injuries sustained in a biking accident. But there are folks who grouse that most of the people in line are “middle class”, i.e. families who can afford a bike helmet. But hey, free is free, and there is no documentation required to get a helmet- you stand in line, your kid gets fitted. That’s the program.
Why aren’t more low income kids getting helmets? Many of them don’t own bikes. That’s part 1. Many of their parents don’t read the local Facebook page to find out what’s going on in town, part 2. Some of the kids don’t have a regular pediatrician-- all of whom preach bike helmets and how to get one-- and instead, visit the ER/urgent care in an emergency, and those practitioners don’t go through the pediatricians spiel on keeping your kid healthy- they treat the strep throat and out you go. Part 3. It goes on and on.
I’m going to guess that the “middle class” kids in your town have regular access to an actual pediatrician and annual check ups. These are “schools/tools/advantages”. We’re not talking private college counselors here- just the things that middle class families take for granted (a library card, learning to swim at the local Y, internet access so you aren’t doing your homework on a bench outside McDonald’s) all of which contribute to the social capital of a middle class family but is often absent in low income homes.
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Your post also points to the benefit ED brings to the whole system. If a kid gets in ED, they remove themselves from all EA/RD pools - even the ones where they haven’t submitted. So every school’s pool has been weeded of the kids who already have a place. This works well for everyone.
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I am not sure that’s true, as families in this income range qualify for Pell grants, and IME many colleges are trying to increase the proportion of Pell Grant students (that’s one way colleges are measured…their proportion of students receiving Pell Grants). The only time I see limited income mentioned is in the acronym FGLI…where LI stands for limited income (formerly low income)…but again IME what that really means is Pell Grant qualifying students. I do recognize the difference though between an EFC 0 family and a family with a $5K EFC (both of whom qualify for at least some Pell Grant $ from the Federal Govt).
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I am pointing out that having gone to a lot of merit weekends for D17, I saw the overwhelming population of finalists to be upper middle class or upper class, not middle-middle class. There are advantages of richer suburban or private schools (where I have taught) that are not in working class middle class schools in other suburbs. These advantages are the ones that often get someone a full-ride merit at a mid-tier school. Most of the merit goes to the top end of “middle” class. That is what I was saying.
My current town is 7000 people with a 30% poverty rate, but I have to move every 3 years or so, so I have taught in and seen a wide range of schools and towns. The upper middle class don’t live the same life as the lower middle class, but often to AOs they are all in the same “bucket.”
The website says under $30,000 household. D17 qualified for a Pell grant for one year of college when we had a very bad financial circumstance and no health insurance, and that was only because of the particular way spouse was laid off. Yes, some families under $60,000 might get some, but we have NEVER been offered that on the FAFSA except the one year. I think the assets would have to be very low, which means somehow people were spending the whole $60,000, which we never did. How did your families get to qualify for a Pell grant on that income? We make less than that now, and FAFSA wants our entire household income as EFC.
However, I was talking about AO’s comparing students’ achievements for merit/admissions decisions. Most people at $60,000 are not getting a Pell Grant. They are not considered low income in an interesting way. Parents went to college, etc. but they don’t have the opportunities to work in their dad’s friend’s lab at the college or take an internship with their mom’s company.
I stand by my point that for those top merit awards that are NOT automatic, the group of finalists is overwhelmingly at a household income above $100,000 and from my experience probably much, much higher. I was only commenting on this in response to someone saying that giving big merit allows schools to attract more “middle class” students. From what I have read and seen, it helps attract more upper-middle class students. Obviously there are exceptions including my D17.
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Certainly in my neck of the woods, the kids even getting invited to the merit award events are overwhelmingly upper middle class. I do not argue that point with you at all.
But there are several possible reasons for that. And the sad one I see (very often) is that lower income kids don’t get to envision a life of dorms and “going away” to college and merit aid and hearing the Dalai Lama debate Susan Rice on war and peace and nuclear weapons. Either they continue to live at home to help with younger siblings and elderly relatives, and take one or two community college classes at a time while hanging on to their HS job (a high percentage), or they go into the military and are counting on GI benefits when they get out to get them a college education (a meaningful percentage, but smaller than the first group) or for the truly outstanding student- they get tapped by Questbridge or similar so don’t need merit aid (a tiny portion of the low income students-- but it does happen, and those kids really are exceptional). But the high stats low income kids aren’t applying to merit colleges AT ALL. The plan is to live at home and work… why bother with something you can’t afford?
Just qualifying for Pell? That won’t pay for my state’s flagship. Mom’s been working driving a school bus and paying her state taxes every year but her kid can’t afford the publicly supported university in her state?
I am surmising that you are talking about a relatively unusual personal situation- highly variable income ranging from low income to “middle middle”, assets not held in a retirement account where they would be sheltered from a need-based financial aid calculation, a non-custodial parent in the picture??? I agree that if this is the case, none of the “formulas” are going to account for your own personal situation. But I really defy anyone to claim that having assets is worse than having no assets (which is often the case in low income households). If it were, there’d be a line out the door to give those assets away before the kid reaches college aid.
Hugs to you. Sounds like you are working hard to maximize your kids opportunities despite some financial challenges…
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Sorry if it comes off this way. My S23 is fine and will have merit. My d17 is fine and had full merit. I actually think an income of $70,000 is a good life.
I just have a personal irritation with people describing “middle class” in vague ways that change depending on the point being made and calling a substantial portion of the middle class “lower income” or calling incomes over 2x the median “middle class”.
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I get it. It’s like the health care industry revamping the BMI charts so that everyone is either “fit and healthy” or “obese and sedentary” depending on the point being made. And you want to ask, “What about people of average height and weight who are healthy, active, but aren’t doing an Ironman every weekend?”
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I think housing plays a part, where I live it’s pretty unaffordable. The average home price is around $500,000, a modest home, the taxes tacked on to that mortgage payment is over $1000 a month. A big chunk of our income hoes towards that.
All of the families I work with in that income range ($40k-$60K) are Pell eligible due to no/limited assets and/or many kids. Many are single parent households. I can assure you these families aren’t irresponsibly spending their income.
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The truth of the matter is that most of us have our own definition of what “middle class” is. It’s relative to how we see ourselves. If we think we’re “middle class”, then everyone else with meaningfully higher income must be in the upper or upper-middle class, and others with meaningfully lower income must be low-income. And so on.
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I am in agreement with you in your descriptions!
And I agree there is an enormous difference between households earning $41K and $171K. Unfortunately, a lot of people use “middle class” without specifying upper middle, lower middle, or middle middle. When the generic “middle class” is used for both ends of the spectrum, the term loses any helpful meaning.
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Same here on Reed. And it’s a bummer as I know my daughter would really like to go there. Even though we said no for the same reasons, I see she opens every one of their emails…
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Agreed. Those students/families that can hunker down and manage such an all-in approach are not common. And I agree that some families/students may react poorly to a few extra rejections and insufficient FinAid offers.
Not meaning to sound inconsiderate, but too bad for them. It’s a jungle out there, and those with significant need are in a sink or swim situation. No way to know if they can get through this without giving it the old college try (no pun intended.)
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Not inconsiderate at all, you are just speaking truth. Things would go differently (in college admissions) for some of my students if they (including the parents) took the process more seriously, spent more time researching, listened to advice before rejecting it, etc.
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